Feminist Theory & "Women's Issues" Discussion Thread: All Gender Identities Are Encouraged To Participate

And then they reference Kate Winslet or someone similarly sized as one of the "real women" they go for.

Is a machine writing this copy?

Lots of x-posts now, but OK, yeah, there are still a lot of interesting arguments to be had about the way that "female anger" vs "male anger" is constructed.

And I think this is not only gendered, but is, in general, about the way that power and privilege (of all kinds) legitimise anger, and anger legitimises power and privilege.

That men can express anger, without losing others' perception of their sanity, their rationality/reason, their legitimacy.

While women, expressing anger (even if their anger is totally justified) usually lose being viewed as all three.

However, when I read this long profile of this woman, and the things she is trying to do, the accomplishments she has already achieved, being aware of the levels of sexism and erasure of women in the tech industries, and this whole article and the reactions to it, about what she's up against and the endless war, all seem to boil down to... "is she an ~angry~ person?" My reaction to that is a heartfelt FUUUUUCCCCCKKKK YOOOOUUUUUU, as well.

But important work gets done every day by flawed people, sometimes even by assholes. No one should be more aware of that than people who work in the tech industry, where many of the vaunted innovators and revolutionaries were not warm, fuzzy people. Ultimately, they’re judged by their work. (The unspoken coda always added onto that statement always seems to be "...unless they are women."

re: shanley

https://twitter.com/shanley/status/489837214109429760

BOOM <3

see also http://modelviewculture.com/pieces/it-s-not-you-it-s-the-system

Not sure where else to put this but after seeing how ILM reacted to criticism of weird Al, I don't know that I'm cut out for most boys clubs anymore

...

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

idg how gender was involved in the weird al thing

lots of men on ilx find lex very "annoying"

It's not directly, just a pattern,I notice here and elsewhere of defensiveness around humor and it's almost exclusively male.

I find his routine hilarious, best comic we've got around here

xp

one might say the "reaction" to lex is a little disproportionate to the "offense"

I think lex's point about laughing at other's suffering being central to comedy is actually very cogent (stopped clock right twice a day etc). and since the power relationship implicit in that is one of (white) men laughing at others, well you can see where I'm going with this... the problem in this particular instance is a) lex does not actually understand comedy at all, b) weird al's comedy is definitely not like that, and c) the specific word he was calling out as being abusive/derogatory DOES NOT ACTUALLY HAVE THAT CONNOTATION IN AMERICA. This last point seems to be lost on Britishers, like we Americans are in denial about the inherent offensiveness of the term "spastic" when in actuality the offensive connotation of the term is *all* on the UK, and outside the UK those connotations are completely absent.

xp

also it's hard not to pile on lex when he expresses opinions about comedy - professing as he does to hate all of it, in all of its forms. I mean he really is absolutely humorless, by his own admission.

nobody in the U.S. is offended by the word spaz, just accept it.

― Οὖτις, Thursday, July 17, 2014 6:42 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

nobody in the netherlands is offended by black peter, just accept it

There is no justification of shit comedians using disablist slurs and this isn't some transatlantic misunderstanding. It is the kind of shit that needs stamping out.

for shit comics to use

Not sure where else to put this

as I suspect this might go on for a while maybe try The Tyranny of Humour

caek that is some false equivalencies nonsense - black peter is part of a very easily traceable tradition of racial stereotyping. the term "spastic" acquired its offensive connotation specifically in the UK from a very specific set of sources, sources which were created by the UK and not widely disseminated elsewhere. There may be no black people in the netherlands, but they would recognize black peter as being an offensive racial stereotype due to its similarities to other negative stereotypical images. However, this is not the case with the term "spastic" in the U.S. as you might notice that nobody in the U.S. has complained about this to Weird Al, only Britishers.

This is completely a transatlantic misunderstanding, all protests to the contrary notwithstanding. find me one American who agrees with you and I will eat my hat.

xp

I stand with caek

well this should be fun

i hate these word crimes

i "regret" "posting" in this "thread"

Ok I think I put this is the wrong thread then. Sorry for derailing.

Weird Al probably shouldn't use the word "spastic" as a pejorative but certain ILXors complaining that Weird Al is an unbearable pedantic snob who is overly critical of the intelligence of others is pretty goddamn rich

i hate these word crimes

As long as they don't characterise you as something less than human then sure who cares about words?

I think it's important to note that unlike the majority of racial slurs or stereotypes the term spastic does not have it's origins in denigrating a particular group of people. Things like the n-word or black peter were specifically developed as cultural tools of oppression.

As Plasmon points out on the Weird Al thread "spastic" is a medical term for a particular set of physical behaviors (NOT a person or group of people with a particular medical condition), but it wasn't until people in the UK started using it as a term of abuse for people with CP that it assumed its negative connotation there. But there was no corresponding pattern of use in the U.S., where the term came to be applied to a more general set of behaviors largely divorced from its medical context. That the UK now wants to insist that the word is *inherently* offensive - whenever and wherever it is used, even outside the cultural context of the UK - because of their own historical discriminatory appropriation of the term is some fucking bullshit. That's like if one country decided to use the word "orange" as a slur for some minority and then insisted that everywhere and anywhere all uses of the word to refer to the fruit or the color were actually derogatory slurs. it is nonsensical.

xxp

lol

I dunno why this bothers me so, the misdirected anger I suppose, Weird Al is hardly Tosh or Michael Richards or whoever

Not reading that til you post a youtube of you eating your hat xp

are you saying you're american just so I would eat my hat or

What nationality do you think I am?

I have no idea

I think it's important to note that unlike the majority of racial slurs or stereotypes the term spastic does not have it's origins in denigrating a particular group of people.

neither does "gay"

If it's not considered offensive in the US why did Tiger Woods catch so much heat for saying it?

he caught heat in the UK.

As Plasmon points out on the Weird Al thread "spastic" is a medical term for a particular set of physical behaviors (NOT a person or group of people with a particular medical condition)

this is such a weird distinction imo. "In America it's an insult based on symptoms of medical conditions NOT a medical condition!"

Like, ok, the severity of connotations are different in the UK & US. However, it's not really yours or anybody's place to say whether one is allowed to not enjoy the use of a term used derogatively.

neither does "gay"

yeah, and whether that was offensive or not (for quite a long time) depended entirely on the context in which it was used and by whom

croup in America it's divorced from it's medical context, as I pointed out in the next sentence.

As an American who was called a spaz plenty of times growing up I think it kind of is my place to say

The US too, but mostly online. US newspapers appear to have edited / censored the quote when reporting it. Xps

is it so hard to just respect when people are bummed out by the use of the word without breaking into hysterics about how that word has LITERALLY NO UNPLEASANT CONNOTATIONS ON THIS SIDE OF THE GLOBE etc etc. people's perceptions on words change, deal with it

People have often used the same medical argument to defend using "retard" and it stinks just as much of purest apologist bullshit.

is it so hard to just respect when people are bummed out by the use of the word

when lex uses it as a misshapen club to beat Weird Al with yeah it is kind of hard

Lex otm imo

you should try harder xp

lex's selective use of moral outrage is truly a wonder to behold, enjoy your company

xp

first lex came for weird al, and i did nothing

I could list a whole shitload of odious people lex is totally cool with, but Weird Al is a bridge too far for him because a) he is a comedian and b) he used the term "spastic"; priorities seem a little misaligned to me but what do I know

Shakes I'm American, in case you had a tough time figuring it out

I dunno man, do you really need a reason other than that you're here part of a community where there are people who don't like that word being used

And that it would be cool and nice to acknowledge that

Do you really need more of a reason

I don't understand why you feel so upset about this

Here's a tip

When you step away from the computer

You can go to your basement

Or your stoop

You can shout out this word for everybody to hear

You can shout out other words too that it makes you feel good and righteous to say

Then you can come back and turn on the computer again

Hopefully you will feel more calm and at peace

Namaste