We need a thread for the FARGO TV show yah? Oh, yah!

If anything, I wouldn't be at all surprised to see a lot of backpedaling on the plaudits for Fargo now that it's over. I'd argue that True Detective (while not any kind of apex of the medium) was better if only for McConaughey, generally, and his shootout in the projects specifically. That scene was all time.

that scene was so ridiculous and show-offy in retrospect

Again, though, as showcases for a lot of talented people who I hope get a bunch of awesome work in the future, they're both top notch.

As far as ridiculous showoffy shoot outs go, greatly preferred tds to fargos panning around walls over corny foley art

y'know, while fargo was nice enough not to introduce its female characters T&A first, I dunno if I'd say Michelle Monaghan was playing a "real human being" any less than Tolman. and all the other women on fargo were wives-who-got-in-the-way, so i wouldn't pat it too hard on the back.

both shows were overambitionus and were disappointingly macho, but TD didn't vacillate between glibness (that fargo shootout) and dread (the fincher-esque dispatching of the alwayssunny guy) in a failed attempt to imitate the sensibility of the movie it was named after.

also, slock, if you don't wanna be compared to armond, i wouldn't respond to the comparison by describing the failings of straw-critics

were disappointingly macho

I dunno, Fargo mocked/critiqued macho posturing a lot more than TD did.

i'd definitely agree td was more macho, but then it didn't directly compare itself to the movie fargo

i barely remember the movie fargo so *shrug emoticon*

and michelle monaghan was playing, basically, both fairly exhausted "angry wife" AND "sex object" (for BOTH characters!) cliches

i think it's a bit dismissive to say she was playing a "sex object," butt-first introduction aside. it was a familiar archetypal relationship, but i don't think it was any less formed than Marge Rising.

you should see the movie fargo again, you'd love it

The movie Fargo is better than either of these series by a mile.

otm

and pretty much any movie involving a love triangle could be described as having a "sex object" (for BOTH characters!) in it.

are you really trying to tell me that the portrayal of women in TD was progressive

no and you know that

the marge story is about a woman, unfairly mansplained to and marginalized, who proves herself and accomplishes something. if you want to dismiss that as "marge rising" that's on you

how the hell do you get from "disappointingly macho" to progressive

slock, you keep moving the goalposts. i said i thought monaghan's character was as nuanced as tolman's (you said she didn't play a "real human being"), which isn't the same thing as arguing her arc was a feminist triumph

the men in fargo are weak, stupid, corrupt, fearful and/or greedy. even the love interest! i would say that's a hell of a lot more interesting and progressive than TD's brooding guys and sexy ladies/victims.

uh pretty much every man in td was portrayed as that except for mateo. and every woman in fargo except for tolman.

she is a much more nuanced and interesting character than m-mon's angry wife cheated on by her very serious detective husband

most of the men in TD are brooding serious interrogators of the universe and its moral complexity, or cartoonishly monstrous predators

btw, this argument aside, i wonder what all that past stuff that her dad refers to is all about, and whether we'll see it play out in the coming seasons (the sioux falls/sitting on the front porch stuff). at first i thought it was a reference to the movie but i guess not

again, i'm not saying anything GOOD about TD re feminism, representation, etc. Just that you're overstating Fargo's accomplishments.

http://www.newyorker.com/arts/critics/television/2014/06/23/140623crte_television_nussbaum?currentPage=all

On almost every front, the creators have removed potential sources of ambiguity or pathos: the Nygaards have no child, and nearly all the victims of the two men’s cons are contemptible figures, often in sexualized ways. Lester’s bully’s widow is a money-grubbing slattern (played with admittedly hilarious gusto by Kate Walsh, who grabs the role with greasy palms); his sister-in-law is a bimbo who complains, “You don’t cheat on Miss Hubbard County”; and Malvo’s Barbie-like fiancée offers him her thumb up his butt as kinky payment for her diamond ring.

I don't think you watched a True Detective, s1ocks.

he did, he's just armonding up a storm

With the exception of Tollman, almost all of the characters on Fargo, male or female, were caricatures.

and tollman's playing a pretty 2d copy of an iconic character with no real arc. She's right, no one listens, she continues being right, some people listen, the end.

the nygaards have no child?!?!? i take it all back

silly reason to recant, but we'll take it

#noooo

It's great that Fargo had that one good female role, but I don't think the characters played by Kate Walsh, Rachel Blanchard, or Susan Park were high marks for feminism on television.

Actually, now that I think about it, the degree of caricature varied based on a character's proximity to Molly. Her immediate family and coworkers were a bit more grounded, but the further you went past that Cone of Tollman, the more cartoonish the character.

it's just hard to champion fargo the tv show as How It Should Be Done if you, like, remember the movie

they should have just gone with expanding and improving the world of Things To Do In Denver When You're Dead

It's vaguely reminiscent of my feelings about remakes and cover songs: take something that ranges from somewhat lacking to shitty and make it better. It's almost always a losing proposition to go putting your own spin on something that was done really well the first time.

i wonder what all that past stuff that her dad refers to is all about, and whether we'll see it play out in the coming seasons (the sioux falls/sitting on the front porch stuff).

That caught my eye too, but afaik the new season (if there'll be one) wikl be a new story with new characters.

yeah but there's nothing to say it won't be tangentially connected to S1 the way S1 was to the movie

I suspect it will be.

speaking of macho posturing i was pretty grossed out by the big thumbs up the show gave guns-on-the-front-porch-through-the-generations moment tbh

like great, we got gramps working on 36 hours with no sleep and a loaded shotgun, definitely encourage that kind of thing yee fuckin haw

haha except it was totally pointless and nothing actually happened

I just figured that kind of shit is standard in the US.

would have been nice to have a beat or two of nothing and then the kid is like "i'm going to go get my DS i'll be right back"

just realized that brooding serious interrogators of the universe and its moral complexity could be used to describe Gus as much as it could Woody's character in TD

he's a very small role in fargs, whereas TD spends 95% of its time with those Serious Men

Are you fucking kidding me

nope, that's pretty much how it goes down

i definitely agree he's the most Serious Man in that show, and kind of the only example of that sort of machismo, but if you're suggesting that makes the shows somewhat equivalent on that score, *you* are the one who's kidding *me*

Dude let me know when you settle on what you're actually claiming about these shows, beyond "Fargo is like sooo much better"

slocki otm that's pretty much.... *drinks entire beer, burps, spins in chair, conjugates 5 spanish verbs in 8 tenses each, spins very very slowly back to table* ...how it goes down, brother.

Dude let me know when you settle on what you're actually claiming about these shows, beyond "Fargo is like sooo much better"

― da croupier, Tuesday, July 1, 2014 11:04 AM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

that's basically what i'm saying tho