Rolling MENA 2014 (Middle East)

Kerry telling the Kurds not to break away from Iraq is p fucking rich. How could it possibly be in their interests to stick with this failed state when they've been after their independence for generations? I get that Kerry is just sticking up for buddies in Turkey but gtfo

otm. fuck kerry. kurdistan now!

ISIS cranks up the propaganda machine:
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jun/23/who-behind-isis-propaganda-operation-iraq

Winning the Instagram war

http://www.nybooks.com/blogs/nyrblog/2014/jun/25/map-isis-hates/

When the jihadists of ISIS (the Islamic State of Iraq and Syria) tweeted pictures of a bulldozer crashing through the earthen barrier that forms part of the frontier between Syria and Iraq, they announced—triumphantly—that they were destroying the “Sykes-Picot” border. The reference to a 1916 Franco-British agreement about the Middle East may seem puzzling, coming from a radical group fighting a brutal ethnic and religious insurgency against Bashar al-Assad’s Syria and Nouri al-Maliki’s Iraq. But jihadist groups have long drawn on a fertile historical imagination, and old grievances about the West in particular.

This symbolic action by ISIS fighters against a century-old imperial carve-up shows the extent to which one of the most radical groups fighting in the Middle East today is nurtured by the myth of precolonial innocence, when the Ottoman Empire and Sunni Islam ruled over an unbroken realm from North Africa to the Persian Gulf and the Shias knew their place. (Indeed, the Arabic name of ISIS—al-Dawla al-Islamiya fil-Iraq wa al-Sham—refers to a historic idea of the greater Levant (al-Sham) that transcends the region’s modern, Western-imposed state borders.)

In 2014, redrawn borders will not be as simple as Biden had hoped

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/06/27/world/middleeast/redrawn-lines-seen-as-no-cure-in-iraq-conflict.html?
emc=edit_th_20140627&nl=todaysheadlines&nlid=31119931&_r=0

“At least a third of the country is beyond Baghdad’s control, not counting Kurdistan,” said Zaid al Ali, an Iraqi analyst and the author of “The Struggle for Iraq’s Future.” “But any effort to make that official would likely lead to an even greater disaster — not least because of the many mixed areas of the country, including Baghdad, where blood baths would surely ensue as different groups tried to establish facts on the ground.”
The Obama administration has urged Iraqi politicians of different sects to come together, repeating admonitions that were so often heard in the years after the 2003 invasion. But the Pentagon — reluctant to commit more manpower to a complex and profoundly uncertain conflict — has quietly hinted it could live with Iraq’s current division, despite the dangers posed by a potential new terrorist sanctuary in the deserts linking Syria and Iraq.
...
“You could split these countries into two or three or four, and you’d have the same practice of power in each of those units,” said Peter Harling, a senior analyst at the International Crisis Group who spent 15 years living in Iraq and Syria. “The problem is the divisive and autocratic and corrupt way power is practiced, not the borders.”

Daash/ISIS is now crucifying more moderate Syrian rebels.

Thanks, Cheney.

Thanks, Cheney.

Cheney and his rightwing columnist supporters have made clear that the extremists were defeated when Bush left office, and they are only back because Obama let them, by not maintaining US forces in Iraq for 50 years or so...But they don't seem to argue that point very well.

I read someone else recently argue that ISIS would have gotten stronger in Iraq even if the US had maintained troops there; and at least this way (US having left because of no agreement with Iraqi government) American troops are not stuck in the middle of the battle

On my iphone so I can't link but news sources saying the three kidnapped teens have been found dead.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2014/06/30/kindapped-isreli-west-bank-teens/11778415/

Israel's domestic security agency has already named two Palestinian suspects in the abductions — Marwan Kawasma and Amer Abu Aysha, who are described as operatives in the Islamist militant group Hamas.

The bodies of three Israeli teenagers who were kidnapped on their way home from religious school June 12 were found shot to death, the Israeli Embassy confirmed Monday.

"They were found in a city called Halhul north of Hebron" in the West Bank, said Jonny Daniels, an adviser to Israel's deputy defense minister, Danny Danon.

Israel rattling Gaza right now, bombing from land and sea. Because how else do you satisfy your thirst for vengeance? Bombing Gaza randomly, that's how...

"randomly"

Explain to me then how bombing Gaza from land, air and sea isn't random. They aren't bombing the people responsible for the abduction now, are they? For they don't know who did it. No, they are making Palestine as a whole suffer in retaliation.

How is that not random?

Because the government of Gaza is Hamas who are responsible for the abduction. When the political leadership of a territory or nation attacks another nation, their landmass is often bombed in retaliation. It's not "random," unless you're stipulating that every war in history is "random" because it unfairly makes civilians suffer.

Not sure if you realize, but it's raining bombs and shells on Gaza right now. Which will inevitably lead to innocent casualties, innocent people murdered. Israel's response to a tragedy is - again - to make a whole people suffer. Just bomb away. And this isn't even taking into account the eight casualties and hundreds of wrongfully detained already in the search for the kidnappers alone.

Xp

How do you know Hamas is responsible? The only party that claimed responsibility up till now was ISIS! But Israel conveniently ignores that.

Bombing men, women and children randomly - yes, it is random, it is not intended to get the people responsible, it is intended to inflict as much damage and death as possible, just because Israel feel they need to do 'something' - is a bloodthirsty, bonkers way of dealing with things.

would imagine w/ the billions the us has given them the israeli might be able to spring for some kind of guided missile system by now. collateral damage would still be inevitable but deliberately not taking steps to limit it in this day and age is barbarism and spinning it on the basis of 'every other war in history civilians die' or this notion that you don't bomb say military targets you bomb 'landmasses' is some sub-rumsfeld nonsense.

balls, srsly

The kidnapping was claimed by Dawlat al-Islam, and ISIS affiliated cell. No one else. But since a nation can't bomb a caliphate, or terrorists, Israel just put it down to Hamas. It is interesting - and telling - that you say "the government of Gaza is Hamas who are responsible for the kidnapping". I'd lol if it weren't so sad. You, nor Israel, have any evidence that this is the case.

Without evidence you hold a "government" and by extension its people responsible for the abduction, and from that you believe it is ok to bomb innocent people. To kill. Duly noted.

like do you really believe based on LBI's hyperbole that what is actually happening is Israel is indiscriminately carpet-bombing Gaza, or that they're using guided missile systems and trying to minimize collateral dmg, aka what they've done in every military operation in Gaza? also, if it is the latter, do you think LBI would have described it any other way that the way he did?

LBI, you better hope it's Hamas bc if ISIS has infiltrated Hebron shit is going to get a lot lot worse than a bombing campaign in Gaza

also fyi LBI, Marwan Qawasmeh and Amar Abu Aisha are Hamas affiliates. afaik that has not been contradicted by anyone reputable.

Mordy, I don't believe I said Israel is "carpet bombing" Gaza. No need to put words in my mouth. I did say Israel is indiscriminately, randomly bombing Gaza. Get one twitter. Get one Facebook. Deny all you want, innocent people are being targeted here. Because Israel is just bombing away. It isn't a targeted war effort; it is blind retaliation.

I don't have a "preference", this isn't about hoping it is ISIS or Hamas. It is equally terrible, those young boys. But this is now about Israel - again - disproportionally responding to an act of violence.

Facts:
- Israel does not know who kidnapped the three boys
- The Isis cell claimed responsibility (whether true or not)
- Israel (and you, Mordy) regardless hold Hamas accountable. Fine, but where's your evidence?
- Israel starts bombing Gaza out of vengeance and retaliation: not knowing if 'they" are the ones who are responsible, not targeting specific people but just throwing bombs randomly on Gaza.

And you, Mprdy, you defend this. You say Hamas is responsible (while you have no evidence), you say the bombing isn't random because it's against a people under a certain government (as if innocent people aren't killed here! As if all people are to be held responsible for their governments actions. Women? children? Really?) you defend this retaliation bombing.

I'm sorry, but how can you go to sleep at night and defend this bloodthirsty vengeance? How are you ok with people not responsible for kidnapping - children - being killed tonight?

Xp still no evidence. Still speculation. But I see it doesn't bother you to go on a speculative lead and just bomb away.

Going back to Iraqi borders/ISIS, that NYRB article was v patronizing. You can recognise Sykes-Picot et al as indefensible high colonialism w/out having a utopian view of the caliphate. It also seems doubtful that ISIS fail to recognise the longevity of the Sunni/Shia divide

I did say Israel is indiscriminately, randomly bombing Gaza.

JERUSALEM — Israeli aircraft pounded dozens of targets in the Gaza Strip early Tuesday after vowing to extract a heavy price from the Palestinian militant group Hamas, which it accuses of killing three kidnapped Israeli teenagers on the West Bank.

The Israeli air force carried out a “precision strike” against 34 targets in the Hamas-ruled Gaza Strip, the army said. The airstrikes came after more than 20 rockets were fired into Israel from Gaza since late Sunday, it said. There were no immediate reports of injuries.

I stand corrected. Still think it's a silly thing to do, especially the 'planning' of more repercussions.

THE FAMOUS "PRECISION STRIKES"

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/israel-pounds-dozens-of-targets-in-gaza/2014/07/01/fca1e6cd-822c-4371-9f1c-a1294d495999_story.html

On Thursday, Israel released the names of two suspects it said carried out the kidnappings. Israel said that both men are known Hamas operatives and that both have been missing since the three Israeli youths disappeared.

“Not even one Palestinian faction claimed responsibility for the kidnapping, so why do all the Palestinian people have to suffer?” asked Ziad Abu Ein, a deputy minister for prisoner affairs. The Palestinian Authority controls only 10 percent of the West Bank.

Ziad Abu Ein otm

balls otm

so glad this bombing has made Israel secure at last

WaPo article is p informative regarding how tangled this is; basically just reiterates the point that retaliation just begets more retaliation rinse and repeat ("#avengeourboys" not really a helpful attitude for ex.)

this whole 'launch rockets into sderot,' 'kidnap and kill teenagers,' 'throw rocks at civilians' and then demand that israel not respond bc it will be disproportionate shtick is some grade A bullshit.

seems to be working on you dummies so far

as usual you see the criticism as one-sided. both sides need stop it with the endless recrimination/revenge shit. otherwise it just goes round and round forever.

xp

did it occur to you that this whole incident was engineered to specifically disrupt the peace process oh hey look it's working

Whatever happened to trying to catch the people responsible for the crime?

"Throw rocks at civilians" ffs

the peace process was going swimmingly before this

Oh wait trying to find the ones responsible already killed eight Palestinians...

so you don't think this was specifically engineered to undermine the peace process

xp

Swimmingly lol

what peace process shakey? it had been abandoned before the kidnapping. maybe to undermine the hamas/plo unity government - tho that was mostly posed as a motivation by mondo types for why this was secretly a false flag operation. honestly i don't know what political purpose was served by this. certainly not the peace + stability of the palestinians or the israelis. but since when did 'palestinian resistance' ever actually help a human being?

anyway my point is that the cycle of revenge is endless (weird that Israel hasn't noticed this in the last 60 years). the only way to stop it is for one side to refuse to engage in it anymore and accept whatever consequences come of that as being preferable to an eternal cycle of violence. would be nice if either side could take this step.

xp

I'm goin off the quote in the WaPo article from this guy Mordy:

The family has sometimes operated on the fringes of Hamas, wrote Eldar, who suspects the timing of the kidnappings is too convenient. “Each time Hamas has reached an understanding with Israel about a cease-fire … at least one member of the family has been responsible for planning or initiating a suicide attack, and any understanding with Israel, achieved after considerable effort, were suddenly laid waste,” Eldar said.

but since when did 'palestinian resistance' ever actually help a human being?

probably about as often as "precision bombing"

should note I'm referring to a different WaPo article than the one curmodgeon linked:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2014/07/01/the-men-israel-blames-for-the-deaths-of-israeli-teenagers-and-their-violent-family-history/

http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/originals/2014/06/qawasmeh-clan-hebron-hamas-leadership-mahmoud-abbas.html#

this would appear to support Hamas' contention that this was not a gov't-sponsored operation but parsing how much of Hamas' operations are top-down activities that are then hidden by misdirection vs. how little they actually control is p difficult. Israel obviously erring on the side of Hamas' being in control, ergo more bombing, which accomplishes... what exactly? More bad blood between the two parties? yeah that's what we need.

islamic jihad has been firing rockets from gaza for weeks (and israel returning fire on launch sites). eldar is being disingenuous by suggesting that this is primarily about the cease fire. much more likely they wanted to undermine the coalition government.