Louie (Louis C.K.'s show on FX)

I liked the Andy Greenwald piece Gukbe linked.

V interested in other opinions about what the point of the show is. So far no one's offered any.

yeah, well, not really interested in explaining a "point" to the show, as that seems a really wrong way of approaching it.

I noticed in the second Pamela episode that, after they'd been to Central Park, Louie tried to shut her in the house as he was leaving yet again, which makes that the third time in the course of one season (one with Amia). Obviously intentional, but I'm not sure what we're meant to make of Pamela and the show moving past the sexual assault so quickly.

what makes those episodes extra creepy is how this was already widely believed to be about Louis: http://gawker.com/5894527/which-beloved-comedian-likes-to-force-female-comics-to-watch-him-jerk-off

welp

i'm not sure how much stock we should be putting into that article

well sure it's a blind item ffs. i'm just saying i remember reading it at the time, and i certainly thought about it again after watching those episodes.

yeah, well, not really interested in explaining a "point" to the show, as that seems a really wrong way of approaching it.

you can't complain that people are missing the point and then simultaneously claim there isn't a point wtf

you can't complain that people are missing the point and then simultaneously claim there isn't a point wtf

― Οὖτις, Monday, June 23, 2014 11:33 AM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

this is america

cryingeagle.gif

You were railing at the show because you think pamela is a horrible character, and that you think she's a sociopath, and I'm just saying, dramas and yes even sitcoms can have flawed characters at the heart. and i think pamela's character is rude, damaged and flawed, but she's also hilarious, and vulnerable in moments, and complex, and that's one of the reasons why I enjoy Louie - the characters are complex and contradictory at times, and often seem real, and I don't have to want to be buds with them IRL to find the show compelling, and I think the show handles and makes Pamela seem real and rounded, even if you find her irritating or troubling. It's fine to me that the characters in this show, even the lead, might be unlikeable. If I had an issue with that I'd watch Friends (which I also love).

But I'm not really interested in answering "what's the point of this show?" It seems a reductive and uninteresting question. What's the point of any TV show??

As for the first proper Pamela episode this season, I'm still not sure how I feel about the sexual assault. Its difficult, and it's troubling, and it's oblique within the context of the show. But again, I like that Louis is able to take risks with Louie. It doesn't make Louie better than, say, Friends, but it distinguishes it from Friends, and is evidence that it's trying to do something else. As for whether it succeeds, or if that Something Else is worth attempting, YMMV.

I thought I had made this clear but I guess not. I think Pamela's a horrible person, but that's different from being a horrible character. Watching Louie pursue her was like watching a trainwreck - insofar as I have some residual desire for things to work out for him as a character the whole time I was just thinking aaaagh no Louie DON'T DO THIS. This is not a criticism of the show, it's just my reaction to what is going on with the characters.

xp

Welcome to life.

it wasn't clear, so thanks for making it clear!

i don't understand why people think pamela is a horrible person. what horrible thing does she do -- make the kids laugh?

yes, what a monster

uh let's see, she's manipulative, abusive, insulting, capricious, sold all of his furniture without him knowing about it (lol good one!), referred to his ex-wife's "juicy black pussy", etc etc

i don't think she's horrible. she's got rough edges and a marmite sense of humour, but i can see how she could get under Louie's skin.

re: juicy black pussy, I'd certainly never say it, but is it any worse than things louis has said on stage, or that his buddies have said at their post-show falafel chow-downs?

the selling his furniture wasn't all his furniture, just shitty old stuff. it was a very caring gesture, like trying to shake him up into taking his life more seriously.

you are insane

1) the apartment was entirely empty, 2) she went through the whole effort of hiring movers, without telling him, as if it wouldn't cost him any money or upset him to completely fuck with his personal space this way, and 3) all of this from someone who is afraid to say "I love you"

I dunno how you could see this as not being psychopathic. Like, consider if someone did this to you, how immensely disruptive it would be.

Pamela pointing out Louie's shortcomings to his daughters to comedic effect was really about teaching them a lesson in acceptance and how we are all the same inside.

1) the apartment was entirely empty, 2) she went through the whole effort of hiring movers, without telling him, as if it wouldn't cost him any money or upset him to completely fuck with his personal space this way, and 3) all of this from someone who is afraid to say "I love you"

I dunno how you could see this as not being psychopathic. Like, consider if someone did this to you, how immensely disruptive it would be.

― Οὖτις, Monday, June 23, 2014 2:32 PM (4 minutes ago) Bookmark

Can't believe this scenario could happen on a show whose first episode opened with a bunch of garbage men literally breaking Louie's window and banging garbage can lids in his face

1) the apartment was entirely empty, 2) she went through the whole effort of hiring movers, without telling him, as if it wouldn't cost him any money or upset him to completely fuck with his personal space this way, and 3) all of this from someone who is afraid to say "I love you"

I dunno how you could see this as not being psychopathic. Like, consider if someone did this to you, how immensely disruptive it would be.

― Οὖτις, Monday, June 23, 2014 2:32 PM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

this is _exactly_ how she was showing him affection. of course it fucked with his personal space, but that's on thing the whole setup raised -- the idea that when you bring someone into your life they then point out your flaws and disrupt your personal space and its not always just comfortable.

are you gonna argue that the furniture selling thing didn't actually happen cuz the garbage man thing pretty obviously was not real (altho it was the best laugh of the entire show)

xp

Pamela pointing out Louie's shortcomings to his daughters to comedic effect was really about teaching them a lesson in acceptance and how we are all the same inside.

hmm yeah that all makes sense. btw don't feel bad if sometime in the future I belittle your physical appearance and feelings, I am really just teaching you a valuable lesson

Would Pamela's behavior would be at all acceptable if the genders were swapped in this scenario? People have different needs and different levels of bullshit they can handle, but I think Louie is fooling himself into believing he can deal with that particular level of bullshit because he's finally snagged his illusory perfect woman.

I don't think Pamela is a terrible person but she's definitely a type of person I'm highly allergic to. I still love the show.

Can't believe Pamela Adlon sold all of Louie's furniture irl. Where is Louie gonna eat his dinner now

xxpost Sarcasm, bro.

can't believe 龜 thinks being willfully obtuse is valuable cool story bro

"Would Pamela's behavior would be at all acceptable if the genders were swapped in this scenario?"

A guy saying "That fat fuck?" pointing to a mother in front of her kids?

Would Pamela's behavior would be at all acceptable if the genders were swapped in this scenario?

― Surprise, It's My Butt (Old Lunch), Monday, June 23, 2014 2:49 PM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

thread for considering important issues raised by the mens rights movement

Yes, that's what that's about. Men's rights. Golf clap for you.

pamela's a fucking nut
louis falls for fucking nuts
many of us do
the nutty ones are difficult because they're kinda nuts and they're also awesome because they're kind of nuts
louie is having problems finding equilibrium in his relationship with pamela and i thought louis did a good job of capturing the high and low points of being engaged in a relationship with a nut

so far my favorite of his manic pixie dream girls was definitely Chloe Svegniy

the whole Pamela dynamic on this show is just odd to begin with. they had a really powerful and interesting chemistry as a married couple based on his real marriage on "Lucky Louie," then he got divorced and started this show and clearly wanted to give her a non-wife role that maintained that spark but her delivering certain kinds of lines to her comes out very different depending on if she's his wife, his platonic friend he's pining for or his girlfriend.

the 'louie as prequel to lucky louie and the wire' theory just needs a richard belzer cameo to solidify.

you are insane

you are not a psychiatrist!

I play one on tv

http://www.frugal-cafe.com/public_html/frugal-blog/frugal-cafe-blogzone/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/actor-allan-arbus.jpg

pamela is clearly awful you guys. i think it's sad but believable that louie is putting up with her behavior in the hope of getting some real affection from her.

still don't know what to make of him assaulting her that one episode. it's a weird moment because it is clearly unforgivable but so incongruous with the rest of his behavior that most of the time, watching the show, it's as if it didn't happen.

like, it doesn't seem to loom over his interactions with pamela the way that i would expect. he is so intimidated by her and she does not seem wary around him at all.

i am so confused by everyone who thinks pamela is awful. its like you've never met actually awful people.

next season should have louie falling for a long sequence of ever more heinous women, until he marries an emotionally abusive kkk member.

pamela is openly rude; janet is covertly rude. he likes the honesty. it's going to end badly and it's going to be his fault so what's the point quibbling about the interim.

I think the whole sexual assault thing was just showing that Louie doesn't have what it takes to be your stereotypical alpha-male that he feels he needs to be. You see the whole time how forced it is, like he's trying to make himself do this because it's as if this is what he needs to do for Pamela to like him. It seems to have a messy point about what living up to made up expectations can possibly lead to.

I have a feeling this post reeks of unintentional rape-sympathy, but I'm going to post it anyway (don't hurt me ilxor, pls).

louis is so morrisey with pamela. i just can't, i just can't, i need you, why do you hate me so. i tried and it came to no good, why are we together, why are you leaving, why did you stay.

historically louie is crap at making his move and pamela understands that with a caveat. if it weren't you and if it weren't me this situation would be unforgivable. i think she's stronger than he is and trusts him more than he trusts himself or her and he has to navigate that somehow.

also i figure louis ck is in love with pamela adlon but w/e.