Programming as a career

buncha putzes

Programming is the worst

DevOps is the worst.

Software Engineer USA™

we like to pretend we're architects and engineers and builders but we're really more like apprentice mechanics or those dudes that assemble pre-made furniture half the time

programming is great if functions and syntax are well documented. it is the worst thing imaginable otherwise.

I do enjoy the critical thinking parts of my mind that were unlocked by learning CS theory and programming over a period of time, but it really chafes me to see software developers think that they're able to solve non-software societal problems with that toolkit

professional googlers

Oh, I forgot that one. Software Architect. Classic.

I much rather SysAdmin, coder, developer, webmonkey/webmaster, script kiddie

Mind you, my end goal is probably to be a 'Software Architect', so I should lol carefully

yeah, really smart or tricky code makes you seem like a wizard but what it really makes you is an asshole if it's ever meant to be maintained

pretty sure my coding style has gotten progressively dumber on purpose

^^ thank you

I think software/systems architect is a fine title, even if my actual designs-buildings-and-structures friend recoils in disgust. I hate when people introduce themselves as "architects" without the qualifier.

Now, the part of the business where people use "architect" as a verb... not so good.

I do enjoy the critical thinking parts of my mind that were unlocked by learning CS theory and programming over a period of time, but it really chafes me to see software developers think that they're able to solve non-software societal problems with that toolkit

― a strange man (mh), Monday, June 9, 2014 5:09 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

they probably also think they can throw together that application in a matter of a few days

programmers are horrible estimators

working with computers makes people feel very powerful because computers are powerful

bring back punch cards

ya, it's just funny because in canada you're not really allowed to use "software engineer", because, well, you're not an engineer. but in the states, it's quite common

I feel like 'engineer' is fair

you are designing and building something more abstract, but you are still designing and building something

I should be a software architect because I have all the artistic pretensions that building architects have

interesting how engineer and developer have become prominent as the job has become less about programing

you should be an engineering software architect or an architecture software engineer.

my dad once purchased landscaping software from a barnes & noble. i sometimes think about the people who developed that software.

i dunno, engineering would imply a discipline that's way more predictable than software. there's no ISO manual you can check that tells you the number of tests you need per 1,000 lines of java.

They might as well claim to be 'magicians of our modern age' and finish the job.

pretty sure metrics for unit test coverage in large companies are getting there

Yeah but are they as useful as "minimum cross-section for structs on suspension bridge given expected load" etc etc, I mean physical engineers actually know things

Programmers - the next job to become demand-weakened by too many people who enjoy it ad thus do it for free

That will never happen, I don't believe there are enough psychos out there who also love programming that'll fit the demand

as a cs student, I'm really not feeling the hyperactive "hackathon/build a startup in a day/be the next zuckerberg" horseshit mentality that i fear dominates. I mean, it's obvious that I'm doing this in order to get a job, why do i have to care about forming a startup

it's difficult, because you do need to keep up on new technologies and development practices, but to do so you end up viewing/reading/attending material that has an overlap with people who are WE ALL MUST MAKE NEW BUSINESSES and it's irritating

I guess the larger tech-oriented gatherings don't have that problem, but then you're at Microsoft's Build conference or JavaOne or whatever the fuck people go to these days

Every year my dad never fails to ask me to go to this one Oracle conference with him

on the bright side, the huge corporate ones usually have really cheesy entertainment

I think I went to one yeeeears ago with Mini Kiss, Battlebots, and a Rolling Stones cover band.

Silicon Valley Techno-Utopianism

programmers are horrible estimators

Guilty as charged.

Can I still charge by the hour though?

^Just call yourself a consultant instead of a freelancer and you should be good

Every year my dad never fails to ask me to go to this one Oracle conference with him

programming as a carer

Being a programmer means being the smartest guy in the room while taking requirements from the dumbest guy in the room.

If I had to do it all again...I wouldn't.

Can we swap careers? Because I can tell you that doing IT support for 15 years has sucked way more than I imagine being a programmer would have.

xp the zuck is definitely portrayed as an asshole in The Social Network, but his attitude toward those twins was basically otm and well aligned with your feelings I am guessing.

Programmers are the magicians of the modern age

― calstars, Sunday, June 8, 2014 2:36 PM

I wish I had have given up on both attempts at programming and IT careers long before they happened

On my desk at work I have five (count 'em) Blackberrys rebuilding while I curse the chimps who made BES.

I wish I had have given up on both attempts at programming and IT careers long before they happened

otm

i'd love to know what i was doing now in the alternate universe where i never thought "spending every evening staring at the computer" was in any way sufficient grounding for an attempted (flunked) CS degree or IT career

I'm going to be doing a lot less programming per se, after finally having mastered Windows desktop app development (after yeeeears of mostly-backend web development and deployment) I have accepted a position as an enterprise service bus developer. So I'll be connecting services and defining queues and working with project teams to determine how to hook their projects up to the ecosystem.

fwiw I don't think I've ever felt a business client was dumb, although moments where they might not understand the concepts they're asking for me to implement has definitely happened

I wish all the luck to anyone having a rough time of it with their job, though!

hi guys

do u mind not bumping this thread the week I go back to 14 hr days studying evenings in computer science PS yr new job sounds boss mh

computer science is awesome and is not just programming so you are good

it's wfh. there's a rota, fixed pair, 1 ticket for 2 weeks, rotate.

so instead of 8 of us working on 8 tickets (more tbh) there'll be 4 pairs working on 4 tickets and that's meant to make us faster, somehow. and we have a hard deadline (world cup).

The argument is that pairing is ultimately faster in terms of code quality, QA, etc. I'm on the fence. I'm sure it does lead to better code and fewer bugs but is it really twice as good / fast?

the opposing argument is that pairing prevents me from listening to music and dicking around on the internet

I had a job that highly encouraged pairing but we were in an open office and the skill range between developers was immense. I learned quite a bit working alongside one of the best developers I've ever worked with but I almost certainly slowed him down overall

I don't think there's much benefit when both devs are fairly skilled. Occasionally we'll pair on a challenging bug. I'm suspicious of any place that mandates it. Makes me think they want to police non-work activity

I pair a lot with a colleague who is slow as shit to show him many tickets can in fact be turned around in a single day :D it does slow me down but it lessens my agitation.. hopefully one day I can get him up to speed

a week into the pairing experiment and the time spent pairing = 0

the day before we were meant to start i was assigned a system design to write, just me. not that you can pair on reading anyway. between things i was half a day away from finishing (after two months), him doing reviews, him redoing code based on reviews, me doing my usual BAU tasks, meetings etc it's just not been convenient.

but now i'm in a position to actively join him on something he's been doing for a couple of days and i go to catch up over lunch and there're no comments on the ticket, no branch in github, nothing. (his last piece of work got into review with no comments on the ticket, no comments in the code, no description in the PR, and 33 changed files... contractors, eh...)

do they still call it EXTREME programming?

adventures in pairing:

yesterday, nothing at all from him after 15:50 and then he comments and checks in half-done stuff at 17:02 (i had something to eat, watched the skateboarding, then sat here fixing his bugs until about 8)

today, some back and forth, about how it has got to be better than that. and how he will try and improve. he's checked in wip but hasn't asked me to do anything towards it. last message 16:00. it's now 17:24. has he left? am i still waiting?

I still hear about XP but haven't worked in a place that actively advocates for that, so I'm likely out of touch.

Doesn’t really sound like pair programming in any way that I’ve read about it in the past Koogs! This sounds very painful.

I thought the idea was that one person would vocalise the approach and the other person would write the code?

generally the way we do it, tdd, one person writes unit tests for the new feature, the other one implements it. swap. repeat to fade. yeah, normally sat side by side but now we are remote it's done via teams or slack or, in this case, neither.

i have other things to do but given you don't know whether they're going to get back to you in 5 minutes or 5 hours it's hard to know whether to start on those.

as for leaving at the end of the day without saying anything, that's just rude

Yeah, totally agreed.

I haven't pair programmed in eons but the other bonus of it is that you have two people familiar with the code

That is funny...I recall shops mandating (but more commonly just encouraging) pair programming 15-20 yrs ago, but I have not seen this recently. We don't do it commonly at my very large shop.

For me, I find the social engagement and requirement to articulate why I am doing each small action just too distracting. Explaining it in chunks is easier.

If pair programming was as incredibly helpful as some believed, we would all be doing it. It's time has passed.

I think it's a nice method to have in your repertoire but forcing it seldom works. second pair of eyes, etc. when trying to figure out why something isn't working right is good

half the time I think you could do the rubber duck thing instead, though

today's standup, the end of which was meant to be us changing pairs, finished with the words 'fuck it. fucking sort it out yourselves'.

all i do anymore is instruct agents