Another fucking spree shooting. Great.

yeah, there's just a huge number of people in the u.s. who basically love sanctioned murder. it gets them up in the morning.

this has the unfortunate consequence of reminding of that "his hobby is moyda" adam sandler song

well see a life avoiding Sandler has its benefits after all

many, many benefits

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/roger-friedland/virgin-homicides-the-matr_b_5435217.html?utm_hp_ref=college&ir=College

I don't think Rodger hated women as much as he hated himself. He was very intelligent, good-looking, if small and awkward, a wealthy drop-out from the local city college who could not compete for women with the muscled bros who surfed, spiked the volleyball and were thriving in a state university that over the years has become a major academic institution. He wasn't as big or strong as they were; he wasn't as academically qualified as they were; he wasn't as white as they were. And he couldn't get the blonde sorority women who were so alluring to him to pay him any mind. Indeed, he didn't have enough self-confidence to even approach them.

* * * *

Rodger's violence was fueled out of his humiliation as a man. Hatred of the women who spurned him was its result, not its cause.

* * * *

With the economic pillars of masculine domination crumbling, sexual conquest and physical strength are all that is left to many men as ways to prove themselves to be "real" men. Their importance is intensified by the fact that we live in a world where the market increasingly rules all and an individual's ability to get his own personal pleasure is the ultimate measure of human worth and dignity. Without education, without work, without physical strength, attracting women appeared to this 22-year-old virgin as the only terrain in which he might prove his manhood

* * * *

Slightly built, beaten up by boys he confronted in Isla Vista, called a "faggot" as a kid and online, he was now armed with guns and ammo.

not sure about one line ("Hatred of the women who spurned him was its result, not its cause") or part of the article's conclusions, but otherwise, this is the point i was making above.

yeah, I'm not yet sure if I fully agree with all of the points therein. But I still don't trust that I can think about the cause and prevention with a clear head.

eh if you read his manifesto it is pretty apparent he is not intelligent or wealthy

I don't think Rodger hated women as much as he hated himself.

It's not a zero-sum game here and this is clumsy/bad logic. He hated himself AND he had learned that it was rewarding to hate women, that it was consistent w societal norms, acceptable to his peers (online if he had none irl), and emotionally satisfying in a way that hating himself wasn't.

Hatred of the women who spurned him was its result, not its cause.

Again, THERE'S NO SIGN THAT ANY EVER SPURNED HIM. First of all, "women," in this construction, is a vague and totally amorphous blob of every woman out there and therefore none in particular. It's meaningless. Additionally, the logic that women's rejection--even if with good cause because this man was both violent and cruel--could have in any way altered his path by being "nicer," and let's not mince words, what we mean is sexually available for him to use and dominate, because that's the only way he related to them, is abhorrent and blames "women" (again, all and therefore none) for his malformed worldview. Yes I know that's a long sentence, there was a lot of wrong to deal with, okay?

With the economic pillars of masculine domination crumbling, sexual conquest and physical strength are all that is left to many men as ways to prove themselves to be "real" men. Their importance is intensified by the fact that we live in a world where the market increasingly rules all and an individual's ability to get his own personal pleasure is the ultimate measure of human worth and dignity.

I...I can't. I need a lot more of something before I can tackle this para. Alcohol, possibly.

HE THREW COFFEE OUT HIS CAR WINDOW ONTO WOMEN WHO DIDN'T SMILE AT HIM and then wished that it were hotter so it could have burned their skin. For anyone to even engage with the theory that it was his lack of success at getting sexual access to women that made him violent requires a level of buy-in to patriarchy that invalidates anything they have to say.

in orbit very, very OTM

Their importance is intensified by the fact that we live in a world where the market increasingly rules all and an individual's ability to get his own personal pleasure is the ultimate measure of human worth and dignity.

WHAT WORLD IS THIS? IT ISN'T EVEN REAL.

yeah, analysis needs to begin at the point where you say that all of these women, even the semi-mythologized "perfect blonde sorority bitches," were totally right on in rejecting him. wouldn't you? he needed friends, fine. everybody does. but life is short.

I can't even deal with the fact that the author is a college professor of sociology who can neither write nor think, based on that essay.

by that i mean that the whole script of rejection-->murder needs to be erased. eh i'm not really making my point well.

xp

Those excerpted paras are so fucking stupid and wrong. There's no way I'm clicking that shit.

thanks, io. I selfishly posted that hoping to get some help in unpacking what seemed off about it.

Also that is such a stupid, terrible, stupid, STUPID title.

Yeah, I have some friends from religious studies who are championing it on fb (bc I think this dude is a religious studies professor?), but those excerpts and the title are indeed off-putting.

Yeah we shouldn't analyze Rodger according to his own terms. There was no world of hot sorority girls and musclebros that rejected him, there was just a world of people he couldn't relate to so he caricatured it according to familiar cultural tropes. His inability to connect is still an issue, but nothing in the world is the way Elliot thought it was because he saw women as non-people, as prizes.

Yeah we shouldn't analyze Rodger according to his own terms.

Gee, do you think?

For anyone to even engage with the theory that it was his lack of success at getting sexual access to women that made him violent requires a level of buy-in to patriarchy that invalidates anything they have to say.

― Orson Wellies (in orbit), Tuesday, June 3, 2014

i think i agree with most of what you said in the posts above. maybe i'm drawing something different from the article.

Yeah, I have some friends from religious studies who are championing it on fb

Congratulations, your friends are terrible.

haha ;_;

xp reading the article again, he seems to both reinforce (in the way io described) and try to take down the murderer's worldview.

He needs to not even try to be in this conversation, which, judging by that repugnant mess of a blogspot post, he's not going to be able to add anything to anyway. Just stop talking.

that's my reaction to most opinion writing in general
"please stop producing words"

otm. too much noise out there already.

my only hope is that this kind of blowhard eventually produces enough words to get lose support, but it takes coalitions in that place (i.e. UCSB religious studies department) for it to happen.

Rodgers had no friends, and no success with women (if you can call "not trying and seething with anger just for not being given BJs" by every hot sorority girl lack of success), and rightfully so, because he was clearly a major DUD psychopath. He reminds me so much of that kid from 'We need to talk about Kevin"

kind of striking me with this particular shooting how much the 'reasons' are right in front of us 24/7.

in orbit very, very OTM

― ey, Tuesday, June 3, 2014 2:38 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

totally

im still trying to figure out if his name was Rodger or Rodgers

that's my reaction to most opinion writing in general
"please stop producing words"

― La Lechera, Tuesday, June 3, 2014 2:20 PM (6 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

standing and applauding every in orbit post itt

also even if every woman in the world had actively spurned this guy they would still not have an iota of blame

With the economic pillars of masculine domination crumbling, sexual conquest and physical strength are all that is left to many men as ways to prove themselves to be "real" men.

LMAO even if this was halfway accurate the only sane response is "get over yourselves, men"

it takes a religious studies professor to remind us all that the real culprit here is the rising tide of equality and the diminishing value inherent in classical notions of masculinity. if women could only be satisfied with their born roles to serve men, such violence would find its outlet in more traditional sources.

this is misplaced condemnation couched (clumsily) in the language of social critique and serves only to make clear how out of touch the author is

if women could only be satisfied with their born roles to serve men, such violence would find its outlet in more traditional sources.

Yes, in the home, where it belongs.

it takes a religious studies professor to remind us all that the real culprit here is the rising tide of equality and the diminishing value inherent in classical notions of masculinity. if women could only be satisfied with their born roles to serve men, such violence would find its outlet in more traditional sources.

― building a desert (art), Wednesday, June 4, 2014

i must not have read the article closely enough, if this is the point he was making.

do try again

There's a social background to every murderer, but there is also the murderer himself in particular

Saying that Rodger has emerged, as some kind of inevitable end product, from the lowering of male power due to a rise in female power towards equilibrium is dodgy

why can't one of these spree shootings be at an NRA meeting

xp A bit like saying Charles Manson happened because of the 60s

Saying that Rodger has emerged, as some kind of inevitable end product, from the lowering of male power due to a rise in female power towards equilibrium is dodgy completely wrong and fucked-up

feminism and equality man, they're just the omelet

Saying that Rodger has emerged, as some kind of inevitable end product, from the lowering of male power due to a rise in female power towards equilibrium is dodgy

― cardamon, Wednesday, June 4, 2014 1:58 PM (4 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

yes, esp. since the whole culture seems to have produced very very few killers of this nature. that's something people who write hasty think-pieces often forget.

in general it's a problem when people make political hay out of isolated events

the only non-isolated (i.e. fairly common) aspect of this shooting is that it's a shooting. which happens far too often in this country.

why can't one of these spree shootings be at an NRA meeting

Or a gun fair, where everyone's already armed, so they cant use that "if only they'd all been armed already this wouldnt have happeneed!!!>11!!" argt.

yes, esp. since the whole culture seems to have produced very very few killers of this nature. that's something people who write hasty think-pieces often forget.

― display name changed. (amateurist), Wednesday, June 4, 2014 4:51 PM (6 hours ago)

also, esp, since misogyny and misogynist violence/murder are hardly some novel product of the modern era.