Another fucking spree shooting. Great.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FjgyznFc18M

true. a herzog nature doc for every child.

Actually the statement "the world doesn't owe you anything" is 100% correct and should be internalized so that people stop taking the good things in their lives for granted.

― On-the-spot Dicespin (DJP), Wednesday, May 28, 2014 6:07 PM (22 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Very true

Meh, the idea that 'the world doesn't owe you anything' is egotistical drivel, the kind of thinking that leads to dangerous situations. We owe fair treatment to others. Basic dignity is something everyone should have.

How does it lead to a dangerous situation

I think it's important not just to not take good things for granted, but to remember that other people should also have these good things. It's the right wing that has such an aversion to the word "entitlements".

No one is talking about entitlements

When the right wing talks about entitlements, they are talking about Social Security, which is not, in fact, an entitlement

Meh, the idea that 'the world doesn't owe you anything' is egotistical drivel, the kind of thinking that leads to dangerous situations. We owe fair treatment to others. Basic dignity is something everyone should have.

Actually, I think the idea that the world doesn't owe you anything is pure egolessness. It's an acknowledgement of your total insignificance.

yeah I didn't mean entitlement in the sense of policy/American politics

xposts: all that phrase means to my mind is a kind of anti-narcissistic gesture (the world does not exist to please you), maybe a more metaphysical notion that universe takes no notice of you (and therefore no one else). it's a healthy mindset in that context rather than a Trojan horse for free market individualism etc. (which seems predicated on some underlying notion of "just rewards.")

The reason they are ideologically opposed to it is that they don't believe people should get stuff simply by being people. To the contrary, there are fundamental human rights and one of them should be healthcare and another one should a decent living standard.

xp to wf

There is a difference between "the world doesn't owe you anything" and "the world doesn't owe me anything" that I did not properly delineate in my previous posts. Context also matters; someone who has been denied housing based on their race is in a very different context from someone who can't get that one cheerleader to notice him during lunch period.

The problem with "everyone is owed basic dignity" is that no one agrees on what "basic dignity" is.

The reason they are ideologically opposed to it is that they don't believe people should get stuff simply by being people.

They do think this though! Think of the zero interest loans all the banks recieved

Are banks not people.

Anyway, you are confused.

I like the idea of taking nothing for granted

Also,

farts.

and yeah it's a different discussion if we're talking housing discrimination vs, like, the Book of Job.

To wit, Treeship is saying "healthcare is a basic right" whereas there is a significant portion of the population, across several class levels, who would say "being able to eat is a basic right". I believe healthcare is a privilege that we, as a nation, should grant to all of our citizens/residents but I don't believe it is a basic right. Believing everyone should have something does not de facto make it a right.

could be taken as a part of "right to life" tho

is it the right not to be deprived of life, or the right to be assisted in living

rights only exist insofar as they are agreed upon by groups of people, they aren't some outgrowth of natural phenomenon (I know this runs contrary to the whole God-given rights thing but take God out of the equation imo)

even putting God aside, there are certain rhetorical benefits to pretending that some rights are intrinsic + self-evident

Not to digress too much but we're never going to get rid of the gun problem, are we.

get hard's 'hot girl' allegory was kinda m4rç l0i-esque imo

Not to digress too much but we're never going to get rid of the gun problem, are we.

nope

feels like guns aren't even part of the discussion this time around, like its become passé and naive, almost quaint, to mention gontrol after a mass killing

have heard 10 x more about seth rogen than guns

gontrol = gun control

get hard

Just noticed that. Heh. Maybe that's why the guy was teased so much.

no doubt

I've just gotten sent home from school (Community College of Philadelphia) after reports of a gunman on campus. I arrived after the lockdown had started, so I was turned away, but from what I can tell online, even though the police are "99% sure" any potential threat has passed, students on campus are still in a guarded shelter and SWAT teams are in the halls. Kind of freaking out a little

yikes

http://www.cnn.com/2014/05/27/justice/california-elliot-rodger-wealth/index.html?c=us

The 107,000-word "story" that Rodger sent to his parents, therapists and several others just before the killings suggested that he was angry that his parents were not wealthy.

"Where's the justice? I thought. Why couldn't I have been born into that life?" Rodger wrote. His father's family in Britain "was once part of the wealthy upper classes before they lost all of their fortune during the Great Depression," he wrote.

Rodger's mother and father had rich friends in Los Angeles, which allowed him to sometimes enjoy the benefits of money, such as tickets to a private Katy Perry concert in 2012.

"I tried to pretend as if I was part of a wealthy family," he wrote about that night. "I should be. That was the life I was meant to live. I WOULD BE!"

He blamed his parents for his lack of wealth.

"If only my damnable mother had married into wealth instead of being selfish," he wrote. She dated wealthy men after her divorce, giving her son hope and prompting him to "pester" her to marry one, he said. "I will always resent my mother for refusing to do this. If not for her sake, she should have done it for mine. Joining a family of great wealth would have truly saved my life. I would have a high enough status to attract beautiful girlfriends and live above all of my enemies."

...

It was his working mother's generosity to her adult son, including paying his rent and the gift of a used BMW 328i, that allowed Rodger to live in the college community of Isla Vista. He bought his three handguns with money saved from gifts from grandparents and the $500 a month his father sent him, according to Rodger's writing.

"damnable mother"

dear god

I feel like I am making the correct decision in actively avoiding this dude's manifesto

yeah

I think it's impt to separate this kid from your average sad and lonely and angry kid who would never rise to the level of such thoughts and behavior, i.e. I don't think a pep talk or more friends would have necessarily helped him. There was a lot much more deeply wrong w him.

if only I had a pool of gold coins to dive into, i wouldn't want to kill the world and everything in it

bc I've seen a few pieces that seem to say there are a lot of kids like him out there all over the place but no there is a huge difference. Preaching the obvious to the choir here though.

and the fact that he was deeply troubled just makes all that time spent on puahate so much worse. like that's about as therapeutic as shouting into a toilet

tax the gun companies to pay for universal mental health care

I checked out bodybuilding.com to see their response to this and afaict their sole response was a posting saying anyone talking abt it would have their posts deleted and they'd be blocked from the site.

Don't bother reading the "manifesto". There's no there there.

The only value in reading it is to understand how pointless it is to use him as any kind of tool to gain insight into anything about humanity. He just doesn't get people or relationships. He gets things wrong on such a basic level, I don't think there's much to learn about our culture or misogyny or entitlement or anything real from him.

He's no Ted Kascinski or Valerie Solanas where as fucked up and vile their actions were, they are operating within the realm of human shared experience. This kid is so delusional and paranoid and narcissistic and living in a feedback loop that it really doesn't have much to do with the real world.

I kind of hate that lunatics end up dictating where the cultural conversation goes - even when its well-intentioned and meant to be corrective. I get why it happens, it's just such a fucked up place to start a conversation.

well and through a lens of being pretty emotionally disturbed, being 22 which who the fuck even knows anything about anything at 22...

tbh Ted Kascinski was a narcissist living in a feedback loop too, let's not get that twisted

http://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/26olz7/judge_questions_why_only_the_boy_is_charged_in/

meanwhile injustice towards young white men still very popular on reddit.

xpost
no I understand that but fair point - he just feels even further out and removed from humanity to me than either of them, not saying TK or VS or awesome or anything

Some good commentary here:

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/05/27/your-princess-is-in-another-castle-misogyny-entitlement-and-nerds.html

tax the gun companies to pay for universal mental health care

Would it violate the Second Amendment to require private gun owners/users to maintain insurance that pays out if the owner uses/allows it to be used on a person or another person's property?

http://www.latimes.com/opinion/opinion-la/la-ol-isla-vista-tragedy-elliot-rodger-charles-bukowski-20140527-story.html

wut

ehhh dunno if Bukowski is really a good role model