SOLAR POWER

what aboout many many littel windmills?
they woudl be cute anyway

My concern is how to store power generated from solar in the summertime that is excess from what you need, so you can use it later in winter months. Some kind of huge batteries? would the power stay for months?
somehow convert the power to a fuel?

omfg let us ridicule these scum (C & P'd from National Report so as not to give them clicks)

<National Report>This week, a scientific research facility in Wyoming made a startling discovery that is certain to change the way millions of Americans look at the environmentalism movement, after they found conclusive evidence that solar panels not only convert the sun’s energy into usable energy, but that they are also draining the sun of its own energy, possibly with catastrophic consequences far worse than global warming.
Scientists at the Wyoming Institute of Technology, a privately-owned think tank located in Cheyenne, Wyoming, discovered that energy radiated from the sun isn’t merely captured in solar panels, but that energy is directly physically drawn from the sun by those panels, in a process they refer to as “forced photovoltaic drainage.”
“Put into laymen’s terms, the solar panels capture the sun’s energy, but pull on the sun over time, forcing more energy to be released than the sun is actually producing,” WIT claims in a scientific white paper published on Wednesday. “Imagine a waterfall, dumping water. But you aren’t catching the water in buckets, but rather sucking it in with a vacuum cleaner. Eventually, you’re going to suck in so much water that you drain the river above that waterfall completely.”

WIT is adamant that there’s no immediate danger, however. “Currently, solar panels are an energy niche, and do not pose a serious risk to the sun. But if we converted our grids to solar energy in a big way, with panels on domestic homes and commercial businesses, and paving our parking lots with panels, we’d start seeing very serious problems over time. If every home in the world had solar panels on their roofs, global temperatures would drop by as much as thirty degrees over twenty years, and the sun could die out within three hundred to four hundred years.”
The study was commissioned in August 2011 by the Halliburton corporation, who wanted to learn if the energy giant should start manufacturing and selling solar panels domestically and internationally. Halliburton’s executives wanted to know more about the sustainability of solar energy and how photovoltaic technology might evolve over the next ten years. But based on the findings of WIT’s research in the field, Halliburton revealed on Friday that they will not be entering the solar energy market.
“Solar panels destroying the sun could potentially be the worst man-made climate disaster in the history of the world, and Halliburton will not be taking part in that,” the company stated in a press release issued Friday morning. “It’s obvious, based on the findings of this neutral scientific research group, that humans needs to become more dependent on fossil fuels like oil and coal, not less. Because these so-called `green technologies’ are far more dangerous to the Earth than any hydrofracking operation or deep-water drilling station. What good is clean air when our very sun is no longer functional?”
- See more at: http://nationalreport.net/solar-panels-drain-suns-energy-experts-say/#sthash.w1rwE6tn.dpuf

oh n/m it's a parody site

http://www.thermodynamicpanelsuk.com/

anyone knwo much abotu this

solar leasing vs. owning - which is the better?

even w/o my knowledge of the industry, as a homeowner I'd never lease:

http://www.pv-tech.org/guest_blog/the_true_costs_of_solar_leasing

leases don't make sense for residences afaik

Solar Tariffs Seem Certain To Hurt U.S. Installation Market

http://www.revisionenergy.com/maine-nh-solar-financing-loans.php

thinking of doing this

Does anyone have any thoughts about solar roadways?

(Is there a separate thread where it's being discussed?)

fuckin Nevada, it blows my mind

thanks to WmC for the link

http://www.vox.com/2016/1/20/10793732/nevada-solar-industry-explained

not sure what can be done at this point, the brazen bait-and-switch move here is just insane

yeah this is ridiculous and will bite them in the ass

they're not the only states where investor-owned utilities are trying to roll back net-energy-metering - distributed generation systems are basically a death knell for the traditional utility distribution system model

awful

but no fear, the Republican Party is almost dead

PUC is caving on the retroactive issue, hopefully:

https://www.greentechmedia.com/articles/read/nevada-puc-to-reconsider-grandfathering-rooftop-solar-customers-into-new-ne

there's no way this entire debacle doesn't get reversed at some pt imo - either because of lawsuits or political pressure

boo

I haven't posted or even been on ILX for a long time but this seems like a good time to decloak.

Naturally net-metering is important but providing parity payment is unsustainable and although the way it was handled in Nevada was utterly boneheaded it probably had to go in time. My understanding was that NV provided no-sunset for parity net metering payments and rather than closing the scheme for new installs pulled the rug from under existing owners. In a market with so many PPAs and people having bought into sola under assumptions of payback over time that was plain wrong.

Over here in Australia we've had all kinds of incentive scheme from Carbo based credits, generous (66c/kWh) and less generous gross metering, and net metering. Currently every new customer gets the carbon credit (Renewable Energy Target) up front and a net metering create of ~5c/kWh for the avoided wholesale cost of electricity. There is no credit for the avoided transmission and distribution costs and the benefit that that solar offers the network is not compensated for - that said the extra costs that solar customers (and those with big A/Cs and pools) impose not he network are not fairly distributed either.

All of this is leading to much more generous pricing and compensation models. We've had a regulatory process (called Power of Choice) which is leading to more cost reflective network pricing (Residential Demand Charges and or Time of Use) which will penalise A/C use and reduce the self-consumption benefit of solar (without storage). Further off It something I've been working on if the Local Generation Network Credit which is a proposed mechanism for compensating distributed generator owners for the value they do offer the network. It will go some way to recognise that solar on a residential zone sub at 2pm is not very useful but at 4pm it is very useful. There's a good description of the way it works in other jurisdictions in the briefing paper for one of the workshops I've been involved in.

https://www.uts.edu.au/sites/default/files/LNCVNM_towards_an_LNC_methodology.pdf

The TL;DR on this: this shit is complicated

thanks, gonna dig into that when I have time.

I am sympathetic to the "costs of distribution" argument in terms of reforming net metering, but as you note the retroactive penalty was where the PUC really fucked up in NV.

CA PUC smarter than NV PUC:

http://www.sfgate.com/business/article/Solar-companies-and-customers-win-big-in-6790872.php

great news

congress looking into some pre-emptive legislation forbidding retroactive net metering changes:

http://www.pv-magazine.com/news/details/beitrag/us-senators-move-to-preserve-solar-net-metering-through-energy-bill-amendment_100023050/#axzz3z6VXCpq9

Hope that passes, good on them. Murkowski being in charge is of course disgusting and counterproductive.

Ah but when everyone has a telsa powerwall the grid will no longer be of any concern!

incorrect, those batteries don't store enough power to run a house, the stored power is used for peak shaving and load reduction

they also quietly discontinued the larger model last week:

http://www.greentechmedia.com/articles/read/Tesla-Discontinues-10kWh-Powerwall-Home-Battery

cuz guess what? they are just too expensive.

sad lol

someone really needs to crack this battery storage issue

i'm probably going to do a solar lease. I know this doesn't give me the tax benefits purchase would do, but I already owe the IRS money so on a monthly basis leasing saves me more. I'm guessing that CA already worked out the issues that are plaguing NV and ruining the industry for them over there.

recent CA PUC ruling preserving net metering is posted upthread

oddly I JUST NOW got a CREDO email saying that they are challenging that. Fuckers.

http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/2016/mar/08/utilities-net-metering-decision/

so not gonna happen

good range of comments on that article

Galatians! lol

the key is to convert solar power to heated magma to be used later!

https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2016/12/the-solar-industry-has-paid-off-its-carbon-debts/510308/

Well that's neat

more trade war details for anyone who is interested

https://www.greentechmedia.com/articles/read/suniva-solarworld-file-new-trade-remedy-proposals#gs.96pEz6E

as I mentioned in the Global Warming thread, one of the big problems with all of this is that four years isn't a long enough window to actually build cell factories if the tariffs that make them cost-effective disappear after that point.

Circa 1980 I bought a Casio solar-powered calculator, just the kind that does basic arithmetic operations. It has only just now bit the dust, after providing me with 37 years of faithful service and not a single battery required, let alone daily recharging. It was perfection of its kind. Of course, with mobile phones now performing the same functions, I will never be able to replace it.

Ha! I have such a Casio, bought at about the same time, and it's still working fine.

Mine was dropped once too often.

waiting for the penny to drop on Monday w/r/t tariffs or cell quotas

this speech does not bode well:

http://www.smh.com.au/world/us-will-no-longer-be-taken-advantage-of-on-trade-trumps-sharp-rebuke-to-china-20171110-gzj60v.html

idk that reads like his usual empty bluster

and nothing specific about the solar tariff issue

I know, I'm just paranoid.

The ITC recommended like four different options, nobody has any idea what's going to happen and it's the uncertainty that's wearing on me

60 more days of misery, uncertainly, market disruption, and fear. This is the worst.

https://pv-magazine-usa.com/2017/11/13/the-clock-ticks-itc-turns-section-201-over-to-president-trump/

pv magazine staff has found no sources that can tell us more about this confidential report, and ITC staff has stated that a public version will be released at an unspecified later date. {...}

In other words, President Trump can do just about anything. There are precious few limitations, but these include that initial trade action can last four years (and be extended to up to eight years), and that tariffs are limited to 50% of the price of products “above the rate existing before the proclamation of action”.

This last detail may be more complex than it first appears. While all the commissioners who recommended import duties would have the tariff values calculated on the cost when solar products enter the nation, SolarWorld and Suniva have asked for duties equal to 50% of the prices during timeframes covering previous years when solar cells and modules were much more expensive.

Neither SolarWorld nor Suniva has done much to mitigate these proposals, which we at pv magazine feel are dangerous and unreasonable.

"uncertainty"

dumbfucks

both of those companies can burn in hell, forever

so selfish and stupid

And there are definitely industry lobbyists that influence them …

you were kidding, right?
https://www.ecfr.gov/

xp

Sorry - building codes that overrule any state or local regulations

If there are, I will stand corrected happily?

sorry i should have paid closer attention. but what you are saying makes sense ime. Far as foods go I know California has the CRFC which is based on the FDA model and is supposed to at least be more stringent with any deviations, but I don't necessarily see that to be the case. For example FDA requires food facilities to date/label foods whereas CRFC does not. I think the former is safer and more stringent.

But I guess my original point was going to be that I could see Building Codes being treated similarly

yeah the issue is a lack of standardization, mostly

it's why Germany was able to build out a ridiculous amount of residential solar in just a few years, a streamlined regulatory process

Xp - I think a lot of it is related to what the federal government funds at the state/local level. For example, there is federal funding for affordable housing, thus HUD guidelines are the model for state/local codes.

federalism, baby

Good primer article (with video) on balcony solar systems... I have a south facing front window where this could really work

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2026/may/27/balcony-solar-panels-rising-utility-costs

I've been back at work for two days and have had two people ask me about this (Utah residents). Everything seems to be selling out instantly, I have not heard back from the distributor (EcoFlow) as to availability, their site says sold out. I still don't see the APsystems I linked above for sale anywhere either.

What happens to old solar panels when they stop working, can they be recycled or do they just go to the landfill?

My understanding is that the metal frame parts can be, but the collector wafer part can't.

I would say AliExpress but who knows if they ship to the US at reasonable rates anymore.

xxp some interesting info here:

optimistic: https://www.reddit.com/r/solar/comments/10oeinz/disposal_possibilities_of_solar_panels_at_end_of/

pessimistic: https://climate.mit.edu/ask-mit/can-solar-panels-be-recycled