Superhero Filmmakers: Where's Our Watchmen?

The movie ending makes a ton more sense than the comic book ending, both in terms of feasibility and in terms of giving even more of a reason for Dr. Manhattan to leave Earth.

There is one teensy problem with Veidt's set up though - given that Jon can transmute elements - surely he can (like he does in the book) simply make more oil/lithium/whatever rather than the 'free energy' handwave that he uses to work out how to replicate Jon's energy signature?

Ha ha, I just read Ned's review and the first thing I thought was "It's like Dune? Awesome! That's one of my favorite movies!"

I like the way that now people have actually, y'know, seen the film this thread has switched from churning negativity and obsessing over the minutiae to (what seems to be) a *general* consensus that this is nowhere near as bad as was predicted.

(also, yeah - nice Dune parallel Ned. There's a film that could never be said to be "faithful" or a success by any normal measures, but I'll watch it any day of the week)

The problem is that Snyder, following Moore, is so insanely aroused by the look of vengeance, and by the stylized application of physical power, that the film ends up twice as fascistic as the forces it wishes to lampoon.

Anthony Lane in the The New Yorker

1) How illiterate and/or dense does one have to be to think that Moore was attempting to "lampoon" fascism rather than, you know, depict it?

2) "...twice as fascistic..."

Ned's Dune comparison is actually pretty apt.

Thanks to all re: Dune comparisons -- it's something that just kinda hit me, as I mentioned, and it makes it pretty easy for me to frame the film and its reception in this light. But more on that in my next post, as I imply.

the Watchtower use reminded me of Withnail (a 60s period piece made in the 80s).

It's a pretty direct connection to the book, as the song lyric is quoted at the end of the chapter showing Night Owl and Rorschach approaching Karnak, but the reference there is specifically to Dylan rather than mentioning Hendrix. I admit I thought of Withnail as well.

The movie ending makes a ton more sense than the comic book ending, both in terms of feasibility and in terms of giving even more of a reason for Dr. Manhattan to leave Earth.

I'd agree on this, of all the changes I think it's notable that the 'big' chance is actually the most successful one -- it allows the filmmakers to be able to afford the radical simplification of the conspiracy necessary to keep the film shorter and more focused in comparison, and while I don't recall if the Comedian's discovery of it in the film is explained as it is in the book, it actually doesn't matter. And as Dan cogently notes, it pushes the necessity of 'removing' Dr. Manhattan to the full, as well as eradicating any wishes that he might return.

The exercise I've been suggesting to folks runs something like this -- say the endings had been reversed, that the original book version had the Dr. Manhattan-as-fall-guy plot and the movie version had the squid. Imagine how well THAT would fly.

More in my next blog tomorrow.

Big CHANGE, not big chance, but anyway.

fwiw, I had never heard of The Watchmen (book or movie) before yesterday afternoon and enjoyed the movie, even though I hated it for about the first 10 minutes

Perrin on the fascist argument etc:

http://dennisperrin.blogspot.com/2009/03/cape-town.html

probably as good as it could've been.
some great (and funny) bits some awful bits - but they all kinda blurred into each other. but a lot of the criticism i see upthread (mainly from linked reviews) is just the usual BS imo.

actually liked it when they dropped all along the watchtower while zooming out from mars smiley. we haven't seen Mars in a film for what 10 years? like seeing an old friend again, who was always a glib but crazy muthafucka

http://img205.imageshack.us/img205/2385/6brookboleyr.jpg

The exercise I've been suggesting to folks runs something like this -- say the endings had been reversed, that the original book version had the Dr. Manhattan-as-fall-guy plot and the movie version had the squid. Imagine how well THAT would fly.

This ought to be the last word on the subject for anyone who isn't a fanboy with OCD. (There's a fair number of those, though, and they'll not be led astray by your infernal logic.)

My second initial ramble is up.

$55.7 million. Will do well on DVD anyway.

Never read or seen Dune, so Ned's totally lost me so far...

My thoughts, a little ordered.

http://rocktimists.blogspot.com/2009/03/billy-crudups-digital-blue-wang.html

among the many little things other people have noticed: Bruce Wayne's parents get rescued in the opening crawl (preventing the birth of Bruce Wayne).

that wasn't supposed to come out that redundant.

chuckled at the Warhol bit

Bruce Wayne's parents get rescued in the opening crawl (preventing the birth of Bruce Wayne)

Uh? (Preventing the birth of Batman, I think you mean.)

Oh wait, your follow-up post explains that. Moving on!

halfway through i nearly fell asleep. but i managed to stay awake and get annoyed by the length of the movie. (not billy's big blue dick though though i did find it a bit overexposed, enough already, seen it.)

Saw it with the wife this afternoon. Overall I liked it, but it wasn't perfect. Some thoughts:

I loved the look of the movie and how closely it mirrored the comic. I think the faithfulness to the source material was a good move.

I was pleasantly surprised by the acting. I actually wasn't bothered by Silk Spectre II or Ozymandias at all. I thought they were fine. The mom was a little iffy, but only had a couple brief scenes. By the same token, I wasn't wowed by Rorshach, Comedian, or Nite Owl, but they were decent.

I really liked the soundtrack, both the popular songs and the incidental music.

The violence was a bit over-the-top for me. I think it could have conveyed as much violence without the extreme gore and nothing would have been lost.

The biggest problem with the movie was pacing. There were some real soap opera moments that dragged it down, especially when Jon and Laurie have their heart-to-heart on Mars.

I disagree with the comparison to Dune. As much as I love Dune, when I look at both movies objectively, Watchmen is much stronger, a much better adaptation, and much easier to follow even if your not familiar with the source material.

Oh yeah, the squid-less ending was definitely an improvement - it made a lot more sense.

http://images.encyclopediadramatica.com/images/3/36/Drtobiasmanhattan.jpg

Disagree as you like but it's a pretty parallel situation in terms of expectation versus inevitable reality. The cachet both originals texts held in their respective spheres at similar moments was immense, and Synder's simply too afraid or unsure to let the film fully be a film, as Lynch similarly found.

agree that the violence was over the top (sawing the guy's arms off in the prison scene?!), but some of it was born of necessity...frinstance, in the comic, Rorshach cuffs the child-killer to the incinerator, then starts a fire and gives him a saw, with the place blowing up behind him as he walks away...they couldn't have filmed it this way, since this was already done in Mad Max, so the dude had to get offed in a different fashion...

Mad Max? If anything I figure they'd think the audience would assume they were referencing Saw.

ok, I don't like to be a hater, but I left about 1hour 30min into it. just turgid, grim, miserable, and lifeless, no sense of humor whatsoever. ugh. I walked out once I realized I could not give two shits about any of the characters or the mystery of who killed the comedian or the fate of the human race. had the filmmaking been somewhat interesting I would have found other things to pay attention to, but I couldn't say that it was. gonna have some arguments about this at the office tomorrow, I work with a bunch of IT nerds so figured.. they're all seeing it this weekend, I had better keep up.

daria i feel u 100%, i wanted to walk out so bad after the first 45 mins or so

I've been a fan since the comics were first issued and I was thrilled by this rendition. I'll be seeing it again in I-Max ala Ebert.

I would have liked the squid too, but I'm not disappointed. And for all the bad acting that came from Silk Spectre II, she more than made up for with gratuitous nipplage.

I mean, I don't understand re Moore why the superhero concept needed to be deconstructed? Why? If the process/outcome is to make things grim and boring?

In 1985, the superhero concept did need to be deconstructed.

the comic is much funnier

Moore is responsible for the content of his work, not for others' subsequent imputations of it.

The source material for both Sin City and The Dark Knight is directly influenced by the Watchmen graphic novel

double-you tee eff?

if the comic is funnier that would be better. I don't trust much art that isn't funny, at least some of the time, not necessarily laugh out loud funny, but not just.. relentlessly grim and serious. the point at which I left was when rorshach tracked down the guy who killed the little girl, when I felt like.. it's already hitting a dead end. it's not enough that everyone is miserable, it's raining all the goddamn time, politicians are planning nuclear warfare, and there are a lot of women in skanky clothes. and now you have a guy who murders at random, but that's not enough, but he killed a young girl, but that's not enough, but.. I just can't stand it when the option taken is to up the ante in terms of gruesome violence. it's so cheap.

I don't trust much art that isn't funny, at least some of the time, not necessarily laugh out loud funny, but not just.. relentlessly grim and serious.

wtf, you sound like Barbara Bush. There's this picture called "Guernica" you should probably avoid.

see, I thought it *was* kinda funny.

XXXP I think that's the generally accepted theory about comix, sic. The argument goes that Watchmen in '87 inspired a bunch of dark, anti-hero comics (even tho the Punisher mini, I believe, predates it by a year), including the Dark Knight source material (among other things - Moore's own the Killing Joke in '88 + Leob's The Long Halloween). Tho I think this isn't 100% accurate. After all, Miller's Dark Knight Returns either came out the same year or right before Watchmen. So while Watchmen may have been the comic to deconstruct a lot of superhero violence, I don't think it deserves the credit or blame for the very stylized/noirish violence that would soon become ubiquitous (and lead to things like Sue Dibny's rape, etc, down the line).

oh I am not Barbara Bush, don't give me that bullshit. I don't have to like things you like.

I thought the violence was pretty funny, but I love ridiculous bone-breakings and such.

I didn't say you did. (xpost)

You should tear each other's arms off!!!

although the problem with Barbara Bush as I recall was how callously she viewed real things that happened to real people, not whatever she thought about art (if she did), and fwiw on the subject of that i have more of a problem with Tipper Gore who was actively trying to ban stuff she didn't like.

maybe I am going too far by saying I don't trust things that aren't somewhat funny, I dunno. this film though, it just hit me all wrong. concept I would like to see deconstructed: 1) women in skanky clothes = OMG degeneration of society!!! srsly

wow, you sound like someone who knows a funny movie when you see it. any recommendations?

seriously, it's okay if you didn't like it. you're acting like you're already under attack from the IT nerds at work.

i personally found the movie hilarious. i love grim and bleak, so there ya go.

I predict many IT nerds will dislike it for its squidlessness.

Just got back from the Cinedome. I thought it was TERRIFIC - hallucinatory, ridiculous, with just enough of a anarchic stick in the gut. Closer in spirit to Alan Moore's 2000AD stories than anything later. Mars scenes weak, but those were the weakest scenes in the comic anyway. Prison riot scene, Archie, opening titles, muzak Tears For Fears during Lee Iacocca shooting all crazy brilliant.

My wife (who wasn't familiar with the comic) absolutely loved it. We're going to see it again in IMAX ASAP.

I mean, I don't understand re Moore why the superhero concept needed to be deconstructed? Why? If the process/outcome is to make things grim and boring?

Don't ever read Miracleman then.

Maybe Grant Morrison will be more your thing. "Flex Mentallo" if you can find it.