THE GAME OF THRONES/ASOIAF SPOILER THREAD (WARNING: SPOILERS)

Man for some reason I assumed that Shae only started sleeping with Tywin after Tyrion got locked up

I thought it was only in the books to show that even the mighty Tywin Lannister was a hypocrite enslaved to his senses

it's been a while since i read the book so i'm possibly not remembering well at all but i seem to recall thinking that in the book shae's betrayal being sudden and total, always assumed that they came to her w/ an offer and she saw an opportunity to trade up and cut ties w/ someone she never loved who was clearly doomed to die anyway and her sleeping w/ tywin more an opportunity of the moment for both of them plus something to amplify the betrayal to tyrion. i don't even remember him sending shae away though so i might be wrong. one thing the show can't really capture that works well in the books is the way the limited perspectives of each character, there's alot of reality you have to piece together from different takes in different chapters that in the show end up being more straight forward.

In the books Shae is a lot younger and seen solely from Tyrion's starry-eyed perspective. The whole thing from her side is quite clearly a business transaction and she doesn't care about Tyrion - Bronn refused to fight for him against the Mountain, it shouldn't be any surprise to anyone that Shae wouldn't want to defend him given that there would be no good outcome to the situation for her. She's a peasant, entirely forgettable and disposable; the Lannisters wouldn't think twice about killing her if she didn't cooperate, and she knows it ("Your father frightens me so.") Tyrion's previous history with Tysha is actually his worst fear confirmed - Tysha was a peasant girl who did love him and Jaime helped Tywin to lie about it.

in bronn's defense they gave him a title and the mountain would've killed him quickly

And Cersei promised Shae a house and jewels.

So they turned the Jaime/Cersei period sex scene into a full-on rape scene. Yeesh.

btw can someone remind who killed joffrey?

The ASOIAF wiki says Olenna Tyrell + Littlefinger

forgot about lilfings

Yeah I think you put that piece of the puzzle in once you find out it was Littlefinger who was instructing Sir Dontas

Sir Dontas gave Sansa the amethysts that she had to wear to the wedding that contained the poison

I forgot how Olenna was implicated in the books I just skimread them tbh

i really hated them making that scene more rapey. it is clear that they are trying to drag some parts of the story out at this stage with a few more kinks and twists in the tale so i guess let's see what they do with it, but i have a horrible feeling that this was a major narrative and character development derail for no better reason than grim spectacle. the theme of the episode just seemed to be, 'hey don't forget everyone is an asshole still'.

BTW

no strong belwas?? fuck that

― turds (Hungry4Ass), Tuesday, April 2, 2013 5:00 AM (1 year ago) Bookmark

New Daario suxxxxx btw

Mostly because old Daario seemed so fitting for the role.

btw can someone remind who killed joffrey?

― gbx, Monday, April 21, 2014 10:29 AM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

The ASOIAF wiki says Olenna Tyrell + Littlefinger

― 龜, Monday, April 21, 2014 10:30 AM (Yesterday)

Wasn't Varys somehow involved too, or did I make that up?

Varys was not involved, he doesn't even conspire with littlefinger once iirc

That's not to say he wasn't plausibly aware of what was going to happen though

The conversion into a rape of the first Dany/Drogo scene has never stopped bothering me a lot. I can't believe they've just done it again. My feeling at the moment is fuck these guys, fuck their show.

people involved in this show need to stop saying things about the scene because they all come off sounding like ignorant assholes

Dany/Drogo was always dodgy in the books.

http://www.esquire.com/blogs/culture/game-of-thrones-rape > interesting piece by a writer who loves the books.

the danny/drogo scene in the books is one of the worst written passages of fiction i've ever encountered in my life

on the whole, is the show really more rape-y than the books? the gender politics of the show are pretty bad, but I didn't really think the books are much better from what I've been told.

Both scenes in the books are dodgy and uncomfortable and composed of pretty lame prose. But these two fuckwads felt the need in both cases to turn them into straight up rape scenes. Cumulative with a lot of other stuff, it speaks of something I don't want to imbibe anymore.

I kinda feel it's about context. In the books the rapey bits seem to make sense. The the only real power a female has is her maidenhead. The books explore different female roles and how they interplay within the rest of the wider politics. Cersai uses it to get what she wants, Marjorie uses it to climb the social ladder, Yara demonstrates her independence, Danrys had no control over hers but eventually reclaims it. The tv programme just does not seem to be able to translate this. Probably because tv executives think tits and bums will make money so why explore the meanings behind it. Cynical of me, but probably true.

Cersei & Jaime in the books has a lot of context and background which is why many book readers are so repulsed by this. Cersei and Jaime are interesting because they're twins and so each acutely understands how different their role in the world would be if they were male/female. For Cersei, Jaime is the only man she genuinely wants (as opposed to Robert, who abused & hurt her, or those she sleeps with to manipulate her). For Jaime, he has this empathy towards women (he's traumatised by being unable to prevent the mad king raping his wife) because he knows if he was a woman, he would be Cersei, and in the books, though he's a morally grey character, he is notable for being anti-rape.

Books themselves have a lot of rape, but Martin gives characters agency and voices which makes a difference.

grrm spends a lot of time in the books setting jaime up as an antihero whose one major 'sin' of killing the mad king seems more and more like a justifiable act the more you learn about it, and having him do other awful things onscreen kind of ruins that element of his arc.

well tbf martin does have him threaten to launch an infant from a trebuchet in the fifth book so he ain't perfect on the page either

he also never, ever regrets throwing Bran from the tower. the point is not that he's on a "redemption arc" (not in this series) but rather that you get his perspective and finding out about his side on some things makes him more sympathetic, but ultimately he's still a horribly flawed person who needs to redefine himself after losing his hand.

Yeah Jaime's arc is kind of a redemption arc but it's also kind of him discovering that he does have a lil' bit of ol Daddy Tywin's realpolitik streak in him too

To project modern mores onto the books, Dany was something like 13 when she was married to Drogo, and so their consummation is de facto rape. And, according to the actors themselves, Emilia Clarke and Jason Momoa thought that romanticizing their wedding night was not the way to go. Not to get the producers off the hook.

Also, :( at no Belwas popping out a victory deuce.

ep 8 "the mountain and the viper" should have been the highlight of this season but i'm starting to feel like we just won't have seen enough mountain or viper in eps 1-7 for it matter.

i get it from the show's perspective but i'm sadfaced anyway

as one of the best scenes in the books, it definitely has a lot to live up to

Are they calling the Viper, and not the Red Viper, now? #whitewashingsadface

they've barely called him that and haven't really done enough to establish his fighting prowess either

do you guys think Lady Stoneheart is going to be on the show? seems like Cat has been in the river for a long time now.

100% last episode of this season

So much for my guess that it'd be an early season reveal. They haven't even showed any dead Freys yet!

wouldn't be surprised if it's the last shot

yeah i've assumed last shot of the season since i read it

They'll need to show some dead Freys for it to really pay off though?

i'm trying to think of any explanation for why they put Bran and pals at craster's outside of "dramatic action" and drawing a blank.

I'm thinking they get rescued by Jon Snow complete with the ensuing tearful reunion, or maybe we finally get some Coldhands action.

There's a huge translation problem with Bran's story in that it's both massively inward-focused, making it difficult to translate to a visual medium, and mostly a boring trek through the woods. I'm pretty confident that if he were to do a rewrite, Martin would put more interesting things/near-misses with other major characters into the storyline just to make it more interesting.

yeah, coldhands is the one missing thing in that plotline that hasn't been addressed

that departure made me annoyed, except for getting to see more of "Owen out of Torchwood"

Bran's story contains like 99% of the interesting backstories and magic though so

but then it reminded me of the "Owen is actually dead" plotline from Torchwood which was a lot more interesting than Bran

I was thinking about how much I like Meera's hair, and then Owen went ahead and starting perving out on it himself, and then I felt disgusting.

I'm guessing the upcoming raid at crasters/ presumed rescue of Bran is a way to eliminate Coldhands altogether. They didn't show the magic goatse either.

yeah I've assumed for awhile now that CH is not gonna be on the show. The character is confusing to the mythos and would be frighteningly expensive to render on screen as much as he'd need to be there. Jon could just send Bran off with a trusted ranger who could fulfill the role.

naaaah. coldhands has got to be in. the crasters diversion is just for something, anything to actually happen

is Coldhands like Tom Bombadil or something (don't make me look up any stupid GoT wiki)