Terry Gilliam - C/D, S/D

Tideland is way too terrible to just be crap, so maybe we agree

tideland is exactly what happends when a gifted sensory director went out of his way to devise shitness on screen and excels himself

Could you guys at least say why you didn't like the film. All I can find on this thread are complete disapproval with no elaboration or saying it didn't match up to some pre-conceived wishes (comparing it to Reflecting Skin, which was an interesting film but I've never really got the huge love for Philip Ridley's 3 films).

Someone did say they thought the lead performance was poor.

I really love it, I think it's a real bummer that there aren't more films like this and that lots of people obviously discourage it. I saw Brothers Grimm recently and was really surprised he could make something that poor and conventional, although it did ha e some good visuals.

Yep, Tideland is fucking great. I just saw it now. Y'all afraid of what's there.

(and the central performance is absolutely incredible, what the hell are you all on)

My conclusion is that ILX and most movie critics are terrified of narrowly-prepubescent girls, and what happens inside their heads, especially when they're exposed to terrible shit in their lives

I need to watch this again, but my feeling is that most people, critics or otherwise, like movies that make them feel good (about themselves). Something that's dark, twisted, bizarre, etc -- unless your personal aesthetic resonates with that, you're probably going to hate it. It's not like Tim Burton (when people used to actually rep for him), where the dark twistedness merely serves gothic loners who are actually super cool albeit misunderstood. What I remember of Tideland is closer to unresolved, unapologetic darkness.

I violently despise everything Tim Burton has ever done. Tideland, however, is a film where shit gets real. I think every difficult topic was approached humanely, perceptively and honestly, with plenty of ambiguity and sympathy for each character. I was riveted. If you felt uncomfortable watching it, then it probably hit on something you'd rather keep repressed.

how can you despise Pee Wee???

i'm guessing it hits on something he'd rather keep repressed

:D

ach, i forgot he did that. it wasn't terrible i spose. edward scissorhands otoh anyway let's stop this sidetrack

If you're looking for a comparison, I found this from IMDB to ring brilliantly true:

I keep thinking of Pan's Labyrinth, which was so critically lauded while Tideland was so despised. PL's an okay movie, but it's a cynical adult tale of childhood, detached in its understanding and sort of heartless and cruel. The problem is that there is such an obvious disconnect between reality and the imaginary world. They exist separately. Of course, the Spanish Civil War setting is really no more real that Ofelia's own world, no less cartoonish than the world of Tideland. But it tries so hard to be harsh and gritty. It is just so difficult for me to *buy* Pan's Labyrinth, to take it seriously OR to NOT take it seriously. Tideland is a story about a real person living in a believable (or at least buyable)world. And I suspect that this is why Pan's Labyrinth is so critically lauded while Tideland is so critically despised - because it is unwilling to offend. Also, where PL is unfathomably ugly, Tideland is quite beautiful.

I love Tideland, Pan's Labyrinth and several Tim Burton films.

Glad you appreciated it Imago.

Is Zero Theorem discussed elsewhere or did nobody see it?

I've seen it. Blogged about it. Didn't like it, it's attempts at satire makes Gilliam seem very old.

Hamfisted is the kindest thing i can think of to describe gilliams insistence that a childhood of chaotic squalor leads to a quirky no-nonsense magical outlook maaaaan. Dude's clumsy as anything in his hammering home of his limited thematic range, and the boundary pushing desperation in tideland didnt strike me as anything more profound than that.

Kid was great tho. As was teengimp.

What part was boundary pushing? It might be disturbing to Norman McNormalson but I don't think he was trying to be disturbing. And I don't think the film had a specific message. It doesn't need one.

Are you people goddamn fucking kidding me with this Tideland approaching dark truths and u can't handle it bullshit wtf

It's not just the worst move he's done, it's the worst movie a director that I had any respect for has ever done. I can't articulate why partially because I refuse to ever sit through it again, and the first time I was blinded with rage.

I don't buy the "dark truths" thing but I still think it's his best film.

Jjjusten says "the first time I was blinded with rage"

You mean blind to the dark truths, haha.

I think what the film does well is viewing a strange situation with a fresh (even if you might call it distorted) eye. "Truth" doesn't really matter, it's just a way of viewing of things that is a bit different or refreshing and that gives you a springboard to try and look at the events in the film or anything else a bit differently, whether for intellectual reasons or just for pleasure.
In terms of Gilliam talking about the film, I think the most interesting thing he said is that the main girl might grow up and look back at that time as the best week of her life or it might be viewed more traumatically.

As I recall it is a 4 hour movie about a corpse farting. Hilarious.

Shit movie is good example of why artists need constraints.

In terms of Gilliam talking about the film, I think the most interesting thing he said is that the main girl might grow up and look back at that time as the best week of her life or it might be viewed more traumatically

so true xxxxx

So true of any moment ever in anyone's life. Vaguely profound.

yeah, was wondering how to read that. If Gilliam meant he'd intended that "the main girl *would* grow up and look back at that time as the best week of her life, or (else filmgoers) might be view (the events) more traumatically (than they should)", I would find it interesting.

Great movie is an example of why Gilliam doesn't need constraints. I don't know what the circumstances of Brothers Grimm was but it seemed calculatedly conventional in many ways but I guess that doesn't necessarily say that constraints do him bad or good.

There was a short film he did that was an advertisement or something and some people called him a sell out for it, especially considering his previous critiques of big business (according to them, I don't know much about his political statements).
The product placement in Parnassus bothered me a lot but I assumed that maybe that was used to get the film finished but I can't remember if it was in the Ledger scenes.

still haven't watched this because so many people thought it was so terrible and offensive and bad. I do have it though, sitting on my hard drive. Too bad about Zero Theorem sounding not good, because it sounded good when I first heard about it. I quite liked Parnassus.

i thought parnassus patchy but really great in places

yeah it was too long but it was much better than I expected it to be

re: Zero Theorem, LOL

A later iteration of the project, starring Billy Bob Thornton, Jessica Biel and Al Pacino and directed by Terry Gilliam, was set to begin production in 2009, but Thornton vetoed filming in London because of his phobia of antiques

Hamfisted is the kindest thing i can think of to describe gilliams insistence that a childhood of chaotic squalor leads to a quirky no-nonsense magical outlook maaaaan. Dude's clumsy as anything in his hammering home of his limited thematic range, and the boundary pushing desperation in tideland didnt strike me as anything more profound than that.

Kid was great tho. As was teengimp.

co-sign all points

I'm not sure how much Kermode counts for around here, but I was eager to see Tideland in the first place because he said it was possibly Gilliam's best film. One critic I love was a big fan of it too but I don't think he has enough of a name to mention.

ok, watching Tideland again, and yeah this is pretty tedious. Firstly (and I may be the only one here to find this annoying), but the fake southern US accents are grating (I grew up in TX, and this happens often or me w/movies). Also, whether or not this is supposed to be from a child's point of view, in what reality is any of this supposed to exist? Heartland America, present day? Why so much mystical hippie imagery? And why do Terry Gilliam movies always involve someone with goggles surrounded by dusty old, mechanical junk? He seems to have an eye-wear fetish in general.

I guess that's the feeling I get from this movie -- it's a collection of its creator's fetishes. Or Burning Man crossed with Dickens crossed with (haha) Monty Python.

For a second I thought you were going to say the fake farting sounds bothered you because that was the only thing that bothered me. I know they can't rely on actors to produce a fart that is audible enough but the stock computer fart sounds are incredibly fake. I watched Sopranos recently and it stuck out really bad.

I have often thought to myself where oh where is the film that will achieve verisimilitudinous farting. truly technology has failed us.

the oculus rift will save us all

Ghost World is another film that springs to mind, suffering from terribly fake fart sounds.

I smell a poll

Wasnt me

I was once thinking of making a thread for bad cgi but the majority is so bad that thinking of good examples might be more interesting. Parnassus and Brothers Grimm suffered from bad cgi. And the sad thing is that I imagine even a lot of the bad stuff was really hard work.

Zero Theorem was better than I'd heard. It wasn't great (the ending in particular just kind of falls apart) but bits of it were ... alright. It's not as good as Parnassus by a long shot though.

Just watched Zero Theorem. I'm not surprised it wasn't a success but I was puzzled just how near non-existent the response was. It must have been expensive so the flop might have hit quite hard.

I felt like I just barely heard half the dialogue so I was confused a lot of the time and even if I understood the ending I really doubt it would have been very satisfying (I have doubts that Gilliam knew how to end it).
But even considering those flaws I still enjoyed this a lot. The design work is amazing, it's the prettiest shitty looking cyberpunk future I've ever seen. The main scene with the vortex looked great. I liked watching the characters. Even though it doesn't seem the proceedings added up to much, I'm surprisingly satisfied.

critics were muted and fairly negative. it never got a wide theatrical showing (in the us) or, seemingly, any promotional push. throw in a bleak and sometimes cryptic story, and its failure isn't too surprising. agree that the production design is marvelous, and christoph waltz was quite good in the lead. i enjoyed it, for the most part, but can't say i was satisfied.

I've seen Brazil, Time Bandits, Fisher King, & Baron Munschausen. I may have seen some portion of the Grimm movie, too, but who can remember? I cannot say I truly hated any of them. But after each of them I felt to some degree marked by muddy paw prints and assailed by the aroma of wet dog.

Yeah I've got quite warm feelings about Zero Theorem so I guess it exceeded my cautious expectations. I could see how some people would feel it's a weak retread of films like Brazil or doesn't have new things to "say".
But I think it has its own flavour.
Although Matt Damon is obviously kind of the villain, he doesn't seem nearly as powerful or sinister as I thought they would make him. There doesn't seem to be any grand menace or specific target to blame everything on. More realistic I guess.

Meantime he has a cameo in Jupiter Ascending, I gather.

A part in a western film too.

I assumed Zero Theorem was scripted by Gilliam but it isn't.

I could see how some people would feel it's a weak retread of films like Brazil...

...Although Matt Damon is obviously kind of the villain, he doesn't seem nearly as powerful or sinister as I thought they would make him. There doesn't seem to be any grand menace or specific target to blame everything on. More realistic I guess.

― Robert Adam Gilmour, Sunday, February 8, 2015 7:22 AM (2 hours ago)

yes to the former, though much more intimate. as for the latter, i saw qohen as his own villain.

Just watched a Gilliam interview and he said this was his cheapest film since the Python films. Really doesn't look like it but good for him.