Mind you, you can understand Paul's bemusement. How does someone as intelligent, witty and all round great as Penelope Wilton's character end up married to someone like this?
― accentmonkey (accentmonkey), Tuesday, 30 May 2006 11:29 (eighteen years ago) link
― dog latin (dog latin), Tuesday, 30 May 2006 12:00 (eighteen years ago) link
― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Tuesday, 30 May 2006 12:05 (eighteen years ago) link
Roseanne v The Good Life v My Name is Earl v Coupling.
The OC and Desperate Housewives wouldn't work here because British culture doesn't work like that. Also, as you pointed out, they aren't comedies. Though Hollyoaks comes close to the OC, I guess (xpost)
My Family is pretty much the archetypal British sitcom, isn't it?
― ailsa (ailsa), Tuesday, 30 May 2006 12:07 (eighteen years ago) link
― accentmonkey (accentmonkey), Tuesday, 30 May 2006 12:22 (eighteen years ago) link
― Mädchen (Madchen), Tuesday, 30 May 2006 12:31 (eighteen years ago) link
― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Tuesday, 30 May 2006 12:35 (eighteen years ago) link
Er...I'm sure we could find as many (or more) examples that aren't. Aside from the two Ailsa mentioned, Everybody Loves Raymond (they're not poor but...), Rhoda, Archie Bunker's Place/All In The Family, Sanford and Son (OK, last two = US equivalents of UK sitcoms), Chico and the Man, Cheers, Taxi, King of the Hill...
There's also a few amount of mileage to be had in US sitcoms of class-straddling culture-clash (Fresh Prince of Bel Air, er...Diff'rent Strokes at a push...)
It's not all Niles and Frasier sipping lattes (though that has its own class tension in Crane senior).
― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Tuesday, 30 May 2006 12:47 (eighteen years ago) link
Cheers had a pretty broad social spectrum; laffs were both at the expense, and benefit, of the toffs (frasier, dianne) and the proles (the rest of them), at different times. episodes like the 'snark hunt', or when woody got involved in politics, or where frasier wanted to read them dickens but ended up twisting it into a tale of serial killers and mutant ninja turtles to keep the bar interested, were excellent at this.
― i am not a nugget (stevie), Tuesday, 30 May 2006 13:03 (eighteen years ago) link
― dog latin (dog latin), Tuesday, 30 May 2006 13:08 (eighteen years ago) link
Yeah, I think the only way "Seinfeld" fits here is through the George character. Which means that "Curb Your Enthusiasm" fits better, as larry=george.
― Ste (Fuzzy), Tuesday, 30 May 2006 13:15 (eighteen years ago) link
Yeah, I think the only way "Seinfeld" fits here is through the George character. "Curb Your Enthusiasm" fits almost perfectly here though.
― Ste (Fuzzy), Tuesday, 30 May 2006 13:17 (eighteen years ago) link
― Ste (Fuzzy), Tuesday, 30 May 2006 13:18 (eighteen years ago) link
― ailsa (ailsa), Tuesday, 30 May 2006 13:29 (eighteen years ago) link
I have missed the boat as regards beating up the "upper-middle-class" line, but any generalisation about American Comedy that misses the Simpsons needs rewriting.
― Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Tuesday, 30 May 2006 14:06 (eighteen years ago) link
― dog latin (dog latin), Tuesday, 30 May 2006 14:19 (eighteen years ago) link
― ailsa (ailsa), Tuesday, 30 May 2006 14:20 (eighteen years ago) link
― and what (ooo), Tuesday, 30 May 2006 14:21 (eighteen years ago) link
― dog latin (dog latin), Tuesday, 30 May 2006 14:33 (eighteen years ago) link
- peep show- the office- black books- spaced- fucking my family
do not conform to this.
― Enrique IX: The Mediator (Enrique), Tuesday, 30 May 2006 14:39 (eighteen years ago) link
― Mädchen (Madchen), Tuesday, 30 May 2006 14:39 (eighteen years ago) link
Counter examples can be found just as easily as your examples. David Brent, Alan Patridge, as I see it, are classic examples of people making a pigs ear of a good situation - they are in good honest middle management/public eye positions are and shite at it, which is not in the same mould as a Steptoe/Norman Stanley Fletcher at all.
Similarly, Earl Hickey, Roseanne & Dan Conner (pre lottery-winning shark jump), are good honest decent hard-working folks who are making the best of a bad situation.
(xpost)
― ailsa (ailsa), Tuesday, 30 May 2006 14:41 (eighteen years ago) link
― ailsa (ailsa), Tuesday, 30 May 2006 14:44 (eighteen years ago) link
actually i think Black Books and Spaced kind of do.
― Konal Doddz (blueski), Tuesday, 30 May 2006 14:45 (eighteen years ago) link
*I quite like it, but then I don't "get" comedy.
xxxpostdidn't mean to diss cloth-capped Yorkshire coalminers, just trying to down-play the "class" card since characters in Men Behaving Badly aren't exactly lower-class, but they still represent a kind of grottiness which you just don't get on US TV. Similarly, shite like Hollyoaks just goes to show what happens if you try and sheen-up British TV in the same way American TV does - we just can't do it.
― dog latin (dog latin), Tuesday, 30 May 2006 14:57 (eighteen years ago) link
― dog latin (dog latin), Tuesday, 30 May 2006 14:58 (eighteen years ago) link
― dog latin (dog latin), Tuesday, 30 May 2006 15:03 (eighteen years ago) link
― dog latin (dog latin), Tuesday, 30 May 2006 15:07 (eighteen years ago) link
― and what (ooo), Tuesday, 30 May 2006 15:08 (eighteen years ago) link
― Konal Doddz (blueski), Tuesday, 30 May 2006 15:09 (eighteen years ago) link
same as Brent and Partridge - how the British love to see the mighty fall, whereas someone like the good Dr Crane or Larry David is lauded and admired. Either that or they get put into embarassing situations which spiral out of control, in which case we are expected to sympathise.
― dog latin (dog latin), Tuesday, 30 May 2006 15:10 (eighteen years ago) link
^^ dude youre embarrassing yourself with the not-getting-it here
― and what (ooo), Tuesday, 30 May 2006 15:11 (eighteen years ago) link
(xpost, Friends, Rachel was a waitress, Joey a *failed* actor, Phoebe a coffee-shop singer/masseuse. Hardly the high-fliers, eh?)
― ailsa (ailsa), Tuesday, 30 May 2006 15:11 (eighteen years ago) link
― and what (ooo), Tuesday, 30 May 2006 15:12 (eighteen years ago) link
― Konal Doddz (blueski), Tuesday, 30 May 2006 15:14 (eighteen years ago) link
― and what (ooo), Tuesday, 30 May 2006 15:15 (eighteen years ago) link
― Jessie the Monster (scarymonsterrr), Tuesday, 30 May 2006 15:18 (eighteen years ago) link
Green Wing - haven't really seen properly but it's really a sketch show and was set in a hospital in which case it's out of this domain. That said, compare it to something like Scrubs.
Two Pints Of Lager - barely classifies as a comedy, but this bunch of chavs aren't particularly aspirational are they?
Green Green Grass - what is this? Is it good?
(and wrt Friends, they must have been pretty well-paid waitresses to keep them in ornate wooden dogs, comfy chairs and hair straighteners, non? the concept of money is so swept under the rug in this show, you'd think they all lived in some kind of Marxist paradise).
― dog latin (dog latin), Tuesday, 30 May 2006 15:18 (eighteen years ago) link
― dog latin (dog latin), Tuesday, 30 May 2006 15:20 (eighteen years ago) link
-- and what (an...), May 30th, 2006 5:11 PM. (ooo)
The viewer is supposed to, at the end of the day, on the protagonist's side, no matter what kind of an arsehole he is being that day. You're not supposed to be so forgiving with characters like Brent or Partridge.
― dog latin (dog latin), Tuesday, 30 May 2006 15:24 (eighteen years ago) link
― and what (ooo), Tuesday, 30 May 2006 15:27 (eighteen years ago) link
― Jessie the Monster (scarymonsterrr), Tuesday, 30 May 2006 15:27 (eighteen years ago) link
I'm trying to think of American comedies where the lead character isn't portrayed as 'hero' and one to aspire to sympathise with or aspire to in some way.* Even when Homer is being a jerk (99% of the time) they'll have him do a little speech that wins everyone around him over, and all is forgiven. Presumably people really do love Raymond at the end of the day too. In the case of The Office, the US stick fairly well to the original by maintaining Tim as the 'hero'.
*I never saw Sanford & Son but if it was that much like Steptoe then I guess it might be a good example?
― Konal Doddz (blueski), Tuesday, 30 May 2006 15:29 (eighteen years ago) link
Eh...but what about the end of The Office, when we DO start to feel sorry for Brent, and glad that he gets himself a date at the end?
After two serieses and a Christmas Special, sure. We are happy because he's straightened himself out and there's hope that he will one day become a humbler, better person than the tyrannous faux-empowered assclown that he was.
― dog latin (dog latin), Tuesday, 30 May 2006 15:30 (eighteen years ago) link
Me neither. I'd like to see it actually.
― dog latin (dog latin), Tuesday, 30 May 2006 15:31 (eighteen years ago) link
― Konal Doddz (blueski), Tuesday, 30 May 2006 15:32 (eighteen years ago) link
No, it isn't. It's a sitcom. Therefore firmly in this domain. Are we just comparing to Scrubs because it's in a hospital? Let's compare Cheers to Early Doors or Time Gentlemen Please while we're at it, shall we?
Nighty Night - blackly black comedy. No likeable characters, really.
Green Green Grass - Boycie and Marlene leave Peckham to join the landed gentry. Hilarity does not ensure.
TPOLAAPOC - still fits the Friends model more than your definition of the Brit model, bunch of friends hang out, do stuff, play it for laughs. Not aspirational, no, but not exactly hoho let's mock the poor and afflicted either (I've only seen it a couple of times, mind, but it seems to be written from a point of affection, not mocking)
Point being, all British sitcoms cannot be posted into your convenient little Britcom pigeonhole.
― ailsa (ailsa), Tuesday, 30 May 2006 15:32 (eighteen years ago) link
Steve, no-one aspires to be CYE's Larry David, do they?
― ailsa (ailsa), Tuesday, 30 May 2006 15:34 (eighteen years ago) link
― Konal Doddz (blueski), Tuesday, 30 May 2006 15:35 (eighteen years ago) link
― Konal Doddz (blueski), Tuesday, 30 May 2006 15:36 (eighteen years ago) link
― kingfish doesn't live here anymore (kingfish 2.0), Wednesday, 31 May 2006 18:43 (eighteen years ago) link
― milo z (mlp), Wednesday, 31 May 2006 18:46 (eighteen years ago) link