are you an atheist?

I'm not dowd and i'm an atheist, but my parents are devout catholics and i know them pretty well so i think i might know a little about this stuff. For them, the investment in the idea of the Church -- if not always the actual, functioning church though theyre pretty stoked about pope francis -- is at least as big of a thing as the idea of God or the afterlife. It provides a sense of connection with their childhood, with their deceased parents, etc. I don't think they ever wanted to *be* anything other than Catholic, despite the detours their own thinking might have taken. Theyre more pragmatic than intellectual though, and it is maddening to me how easily they can reconcile awful positions the Church takes with their own feelings, or how they just don't think it's their place to question whether god is real when "great thinkers" have been deists, but whatever. Skepticism isn't a personality trait everyone has and theyre good people. Granny's attitude is just annoying to me.

So yeah, lots of issues of identity tied up in religious belief. It's not just or even mostly about personal experiences of God, I don't think, at least not for certain kinds of Catholics.

Sorry xp. On my iphone i dont get the warning message that others have posted while i was writing my post.

"Skepticism isn't a personality trait everyone has and theyre good people. Granny's attitude is just annoying to me."

are these sentences supposed to be related?

You were attacking people's defensiveness over spiritual beliefs that sometimes seem half-formed or half-believed. I was trying to describe why some people are like that, and one answer might be that intellectual consistency isnt the most impt thing to them.

so they're not related, cool

totally makes sense for someone for whom intell cnstncy isn't important to get defensive when someone criticizes their belief for not having intell constncy, why couldn't I see that

People get defensive when they're criticized in general and more so when they're ridiculed. So it makes sense, yeah.

that isn't what you said.
then they shouldn't hold ridiculous beliefs. y'know, like those nutso chemtrail or moon conspiracy people.

i mean i would hope that it isn't important to them! that'd be double pathetic.

nope sorry misread you, that is what you said. I thought the "why they're like that" was referring to being defensive.

But if their framework for understanding themselves and the world is structured in religious terms, asking them to let go of the idea of God is a really tall order. Like this Jewish reading group in the cafe next to me right now: a bunch of old men discussing ethical issues, referencing different interpretations of different stories from the Torah. From where I am sitting, it seems like they're dwelling in a pretty interpretively rich context, with room for flexibility because they're arguing about stuff. It's not my framework, but i dont really think these dudes would be better off if they abandoned it. I dont even think they'd understand reality better by letting go of their God-term. Being "religious" doesn't mean your thinking is dogmatic and one dimensional; being an atheist doesn't mean your thinking is flexible and inquisitive.

Xp i did mean why they are defensive

I'm not asking them to let go of the idea of God, so don't ask me to let go of the idea of finding it ridiculous

ok that makes no sense though. "my eye color is not important to me" "omg dude your eye color is dumb!" "FUCK YOU, ASSHOLE!!"

I didn't ever say it wasn't important to them! I'm saying that faith can still be important to someone even if it isn't air- tight and certain, because many aspects of people's lived identity is tied up in their faith.

Like, it's not just or even primarily about metaphysical certainty for some people. It's a history, a community, and an ethical framework.

you said intellectual consistency wasn't important to them, but yet it's one answer to explain why they get defensive when their religious beliefs are ridiculed

yes duh I fucking get it. that has nothing to do with me finding a belief in god ridiculous.

What's the benefit of ridiculing anyone ever?

"eh I can take or leave the whole god part, I dig the history, the community, the ethical framework"
ok cool have fun at bingo

what's the benefit of asking me what's the benefit of ridiculing anyone?

the more religious belief is ridiculed, hopefully the less influence it has in the world. I think that's a good goal, thought you may disagree.

though, not thought

if this tactic doesn't work, I have to resort to stonings and burnings, I'm just sayin

the more religious belief is ridiculed, hopefully the less influence it has in the world. I think that's a good goal, thought you may disagree.

Good idea, if you had been around in the 15th century you would've made a good witch hunter.

Please elaborate more on your philosophy of intolerance and ridicule, it really sounds like a winner.

those poor witches, riduculed at the steak!
another great analogy, you intellectual giant

i'm very tolerant. why did you feel the need to strengthen the case against me by throwing that in there?

sadly, my philosophy cannot compete with your ill thought out comparisons and nearly total lack of understanding of what science even is

Please teach us, oh master.

you're reduced to that tactic eh? why even post then

One day I will pee farther than you.

hey lookit this guy thinks he knows everything.
no I just think you're an idiot.

Stfu everyone i'm trying to sleep

Are you really sleeping, or do you just black out and fly around Manhattan terrorizing people?

and Jesus said "Go forth and get thy fuckin' shinebox"

Unfortunately, reading Granny D's few dozen one-a-minute one-liners on this thread reminded me strongly of long ago ilxor Aaron Hertz during one of his manic episodes before he was permabanned. Get well, Granny D.

Ruffled Fedoras

gd about to find out that there is a mod imo

haha yeah I'm the one with the mental condition here. You're a humorless twat, Aimless, fuck off holmes.

ILX is so fucking predictable and y'all so lame, years of amusement tho thanks for that

oh no a mod whatever shall I do who fucking cares

oh shit was that 2 many 1 line posts too quickly OMG THE MANIA IT'S CONSUMING ME

praying for u dog

Ilx posters are good people, Granny. Honest, pious people. I won't have you speak about them like that.

oh ok sorry, whew manic phase over now

well, thank god! (joeks bro)

jk yall stll twathammers

You're a maniac.

on the floor