are you an atheist?

Granny, for fuck's sake cool it.

just a bit of rational discourse, let's be cool

you guys just don't have a nuanced enough grasp of anti-vaccinism or ghosts, I'm sick of your caricatures!. how arrogant to presume you know how someone feels. and don't lump those hardcore members in with the rest, they're doing it wrong.

The doll hearken the doll, ppl

that's totally hilarious, keep going with it, fire up the lol thread guys

ah what a pathetic bunch of twats this board is

always has been

hands up who's on psych meds

summarise

not familiar with that one

scold me ILX, I'm a bwad bwoy haha y'all too funny

Dude, what the fuck is wrong with you?

nothing wrong with me. something's wrong with the most of the rest of you fools.

place takes itself so fucking seriously, my lawd

If that's the case then why are you the only one here getting angry?

errgh yes me so angry, me so upset by things people on internet say errgh get real mang

Starting to wonder about that doll...

hilarious! stop it!

Anywhoooo

it's referencing the doll that kids point at while being interviewed after they've been molested, hahahahahahahaha oh whew boy

starting to wonder why any of you fools are still clicking on this thread, esp when you've seen I made the last post. purely boredom? rhetorical question, I don't give a shit.

Well, it's the book that most closely matches my experience of God. I believe that other holy books were written by people who had insight into God too, and can sometimes inform my faith, or provide insight into it. But the God of the Bible is closer to the evidence I have available (and the only evidence I will ever have): my subjective experience.

― The Whittrick and Puddock (dowd), Thursday, March 6, 2014 2:51 AM (5 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

dowd, do you believe your experiences with God despite the holy books would have been the same if you had absolutely no knowledge of that religion in the first place?

Dammit I didn't get back here before Granny poured gasoline all over the thread...

I'm still looking for discussion here in case anyone dared to click back in.

dowd, do you believe your experiences with God despite the holy books would have been the same if you had absolutely no knowledge of that religion in the first place?

No, I don't. It would certainly seem that such experiences are culturally informed to some degree. The problem is trying to separate the nature of the thing viewed from the nature of the eye.

I'm not dowd and i'm an atheist, but my parents are devout catholics and i know them pretty well so i think i might know a little about this stuff. For them, the investment in the idea of the Church -- if not always the actual, functioning church though theyre pretty stoked about pope francis -- is at least as big of a thing as the idea of God or the afterlife. It provides a sense of connection with their childhood, with their deceased parents, etc. I don't think they ever wanted to *be* anything other than Catholic, despite the detours their own thinking might have taken. Theyre more pragmatic than intellectual though, and it is maddening to me how easily they can reconcile awful positions the Church takes with their own feelings, or how they just don't think it's their place to question whether god is real when "great thinkers" have been deists, but whatever. Skepticism isn't a personality trait everyone has and theyre good people. Granny's attitude is just annoying to me.

So yeah, lots of issues of identity tied up in religious belief. It's not just or even mostly about personal experiences of God, I don't think, at least not for certain kinds of Catholics.

Sorry xp. On my iphone i dont get the warning message that others have posted while i was writing my post.

"Skepticism isn't a personality trait everyone has and theyre good people. Granny's attitude is just annoying to me."

are these sentences supposed to be related?

You were attacking people's defensiveness over spiritual beliefs that sometimes seem half-formed or half-believed. I was trying to describe why some people are like that, and one answer might be that intellectual consistency isnt the most impt thing to them.

so they're not related, cool

totally makes sense for someone for whom intell cnstncy isn't important to get defensive when someone criticizes their belief for not having intell constncy, why couldn't I see that

People get defensive when they're criticized in general and more so when they're ridiculed. So it makes sense, yeah.

that isn't what you said.
then they shouldn't hold ridiculous beliefs. y'know, like those nutso chemtrail or moon conspiracy people.

i mean i would hope that it isn't important to them! that'd be double pathetic.

nope sorry misread you, that is what you said. I thought the "why they're like that" was referring to being defensive.

But if their framework for understanding themselves and the world is structured in religious terms, asking them to let go of the idea of God is a really tall order. Like this Jewish reading group in the cafe next to me right now: a bunch of old men discussing ethical issues, referencing different interpretations of different stories from the Torah. From where I am sitting, it seems like they're dwelling in a pretty interpretively rich context, with room for flexibility because they're arguing about stuff. It's not my framework, but i dont really think these dudes would be better off if they abandoned it. I dont even think they'd understand reality better by letting go of their God-term. Being "religious" doesn't mean your thinking is dogmatic and one dimensional; being an atheist doesn't mean your thinking is flexible and inquisitive.

Xp i did mean why they are defensive

I'm not asking them to let go of the idea of God, so don't ask me to let go of the idea of finding it ridiculous

ok that makes no sense though. "my eye color is not important to me" "omg dude your eye color is dumb!" "FUCK YOU, ASSHOLE!!"

I didn't ever say it wasn't important to them! I'm saying that faith can still be important to someone even if it isn't air- tight and certain, because many aspects of people's lived identity is tied up in their faith.

Like, it's not just or even primarily about metaphysical certainty for some people. It's a history, a community, and an ethical framework.

you said intellectual consistency wasn't important to them, but yet it's one answer to explain why they get defensive when their religious beliefs are ridiculed

yes duh I fucking get it. that has nothing to do with me finding a belief in god ridiculous.

What's the benefit of ridiculing anyone ever?

"eh I can take or leave the whole god part, I dig the history, the community, the ethical framework"
ok cool have fun at bingo

what's the benefit of asking me what's the benefit of ridiculing anyone?

the more religious belief is ridiculed, hopefully the less influence it has in the world. I think that's a good goal, thought you may disagree.

though, not thought

if this tactic doesn't work, I have to resort to stonings and burnings, I'm just sayin

the more religious belief is ridiculed, hopefully the less influence it has in the world. I think that's a good goal, thought you may disagree.

Good idea, if you had been around in the 15th century you would've made a good witch hunter.