Star Trek: Classic or Dud?

yeah shallow archetypes work better for me in this context tbh where everything is a brightly colored allegory and ACTION

But it's not really about the action! That's the biggest thing I love about ST, especially TNG, that it actually believes in its non-violent utopia, that the ultimate solution to most conflicts tends to be negotiation and peacemaking. (This, BTW, is the reason I hated the new ST movies, because they discard this idea altogether in favour of standard space opera action.) And you can't have shallow characters doing that. When Picard dressed down the rogue Starfleet captain who's about to reignite the war with the Cardassians in "The Wounded", you gotta hear the conviction in his words! In most American sci-fi shows/movies the rogue captain would be the hero (especially considering that he has understandable reasons for doing what he does), but here he's antagonist to Picard's pacificist hero. So yeah, I don't mind the boringness, I think it's that's what makes the series unique.

I agree w you in general, totally down w the non-violent Utopian vision at the core, but then tbh Kirk plays the rogue captain role plenty. and he will always be my favorite.

Tuomas is OTM all over this thread.

― Jeff, Saturday, February 22, 2014 12:09 AM (42 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I agree! I'm really enjoying your posts, Tuomas. They are very thoughtful and it seems like we approach the show similarly (and with similar enthusiasm). Like I am so on board with this - "That's the biggest thing I love about ST, especially TNG, that it actually believes in its non-violent utopia, that the ultimate solution to most conflicts tends to be negotiation and peacemaking."

From the LA Times, January 1968. A group of Caltech students protesting NBC planing to cancel Star Trek.

http://scontent-b-sjc.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc3/t1/1779214_288895557930907_1159522594_n.jpg

I should say that it wasn't necessarily Roddenberry's original vision that was the issue(tho his idea that there would be no religion at all in the future is weird), but rather his execution of such.

From the LA Times, January 1968. A group of Caltech students

Either that, or a group of hipsters, February 2014.

tuomas otm in this thread - what i love about TNG is that the dilemma is rarely a technical or violent one to be solved - it's almost always a moral choice that needs to be made

Wow @ that photo

DRAFT SPOCK

"tho his idea that there would be no religion at all in the future is weird"

not any weirder than "no need for money in 23rd century"

ds9 really flipped the script on this: "let's make the main character a messiah, and turn the ferengis into objectivist merchant heroes"

true about THE SISKO but the Ferengi thing was always a silly joke

i love TNG and DS9 both for their takes. I did crack up when evil Section 9 showed up in the nu-Trek sequel

I was in undergrad from 94-00 and so was spared much of the weirdness of DS9 and Voyager.

they are comedy but from the very first episode, the seedy commerce that qwark represents is shamelessly touted as the lifeblood of community, and later ferengi-style horsetrading is vindicated as the solution to resource scarcity on multiple occasions. nog totally rubs it in jake's face, too.

oh yeah roddenberry would be doing backflips in his grave over federation stasi

eh, the couple of "heroic" occasions that Quark rises to were mostly a story function, making him not a completely boring one-dimensional character. he got maybe like one episode a season where he was a good guy

you're right about Roddenberry probably flipping over in his grave though - think about the conception of the Ferengi in their first TNG episode *shudder*

I just noticed that Amazon has all the remastered TNG episodes free with prime!

Waita... the Ferengi were originally intended to be the new major villains of TNG, and only became venture capitalists over the seasons.

Also, loads of TNG episodes are resolved with some technobabble solution!

ya but usually the drama itself is resolved through some sort of interesting choice or dilemma, the technobabble is just the mcguffin

so much mcguffin tho. its more like mcstuffin

ya but usually the drama itself is resolved through some sort of interesting choice or dilemma, the technobabble is just the mcguffin

Yep. I can't think of an episode where the problem and the solution would be purely technical, there's always some personal/social/moral drama involved. Even in the episode were Wesley accidentally lets a bunch of nanobots mutate into sentience, and they take over the ship's computer, the main drama shifts from "how do we get them out of the computer?" to "what are the ethics of dealing with this new lifeform?".

I always liked the contrast between those, by televisual standards, fairly searching philosophical questions, and the way the characters all seem to act like hormonal teenagers when it comes to relationships, e.g. La Forge's "why does nobody love me" stuff. This is despite the enlightened attitudes towards sex that Tuomas correctly talks about upthread.

Hah, yes, I guess it's no surprise sci-fi writers are better at writing philosophy than romance and relationships.

La Forge was a proxy for the writers and for dateless Trekker nerds with eyesight problems

Levar Burton has mentioned his take that Geordi didn't get any was because the writers were afraid of black male sexuality.

yeah I can see that too

Meanwhile, at target, for your more knocked-up officer:

http://i.imgur.com/35DQZ7w.jpg

Good look, esp. how it permits femininity within the engineering corps.

Or, if you're TOS, from command.

Wait they sell Star Trek clothes?

2014: The Year Nerd Broke

hott

http://img4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20121204222548/memoryalpha/en/images/a/a6/Data_and_a_pregnant_Troi.jpg

The Almighty Star Trek Lit-verse Reading Order Flow Chart: http://www.thetrekcollective.com/p/trek-lit-reading-order.html

Very useful.

http://25.media.tumblr.com/b62fe1e5a3c8b42d4cd211083531e3e3/tumblr_mzvgtkV2K71rno58uo3_500.png

It's Voyager, and Reddit, but surprising, consistent lolz: http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/1zn4rq/iama_robert_beltran_aka_commander_chakotay_from/

pretty amusing!

So I've always been a TOS-only (and movies) fan but I wouldn't mind getting into some Next Generation. Any recommendations on where to start? I wouldn't mind taking in a season or two now but watching the entire run is gonna have to wait until I retire.

Season 3

You can watch the pilot and skip the rest of the first season. Season 2 has some real gems, but the show gets real in the third.

Watch "Q Who" from season 2 for essential background

^^ OTM.

I'd also suggest:
"Measure of a Main" for courtroom dramaz.
"Time Squared" for timey wimey.
"The Emissary" if you care about Worf.

I forget if "Manhunt" (Lwaxana on the prowl!) was any good or not.

all good advice

there's a handful of S1 episodes that are worth it, others as curios maybe (the first holodeck episode, the Ferengi, crazy space worms!)

Em.... I'm gonna stay away from the space worms, hopefully. I love Wrath of Khan to death but I always have to look away during those parts.

Good call, that's kind of a low-budget Grand Guignol of an episode.

You can always go back and roll your eyes at S1/S2 in the future. I mean, for god-sakes, they ended season 2 with a clip show. Dr. Crusher also leaves the show for season 2 and comes back for season 3, though Wesley doesn't.

Doesn't leave, that is

I see you're part of the No Crushers Club too.

My favorite season 1 episode (non-pilot) is Justice.