are you an atheist?

And that provided you aren't actually using this subjective belief to make objective explanations or predictions about the material world, it's no crazier than saying stuff like "I love you" or "that's funny"

Preeeeeeeeeeeeeeeetty sure people have seen elements with their naked eye.

http://blogs-images.forbes.com/afontevecchia/files/2011/11/Gold-Bars-in-Fort-Knox.jpg

That one is number 79. You're welcome.

those comparisons are wack. I love you because Zeus has made it so. That's funny because little elves are tickling my funny bone.

and gravity and electromagnetiism aren't things, but the observable effects of things.

And that provided you aren't actually using this subjective belief to make objective explanations or predictions about the material world,

like many people who make your arguments, you are really emotionally invested in not admitting any space for religion in the world

why do you think that is?

wait wait lemme lie down on a couch, doc

My point is that a purely subjective belief in god is valid and it's silly to try to argue that eventually science will obviate that

― Burt Stuntin (Hurting 2), Tuesday, February 11, 2014 5:11 PM (6 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

otm

Doesn't our history as a species discovering why something works scientifically and replacing the magic based theories suggest that trajectory will continue?

Yes but the history is also of people doing things for silly beliefs as well and that will continue.

Like you guys are forgetting that alchemy gave birth to chemistry, astrology to astronomy, etc.

the space that religion inhabits has been shrinking steadily. a logical conclusion would be that one day, MAYBE, it will inhabit no space. I have no sentiment tied to religion, so that's fine by me. I see no need to believe in things that have no proof and perhaps can never be proved one way or the other, and that as you said shouldn't allow you to make explanations and predictions about the material world (reminds me of The Ether). if someone wants to believe in spiritual/supernatural stuff, that's fine so long as they keep it to themselves more or less. I have nothing to compel me to believe in such things.

Yes but the history is also of people doing things for silly beliefs as well and that will continue.

it will continue. indefinitely? you don't know

I would say there is lots of religion. Basically pop culture, celebrities, wealth, etc. has replaced the old gods. People still have weird rituals that have nothing to do with physical survival and are there for mainly psychological reasons. You who submit to your iPhone.

where all my alchemy believers at!??!

if you want to stretch "religion" to mean all those things, it's a meaningless term but you win the argument

I would say there is lots of religion. Basically pop culture, celebrities, wealth, etc. has replaced the old gods. People still have weird rituals that have nothing to do with physical survival and are there for mainly psychological reasons. You who submit to your iPhone.

― Emperor Cos Dashit (Adam Bruneau), Tuesday, February 11, 2014 5:23 PM (29 seconds ago)

Sure, but is this a counterpoint? What does it have to do with scientific progression?

How is it a stretch to say money is God? Every day people are killed in the name of money, you know? I consider this dangerous, cultish behavior.

because no one thinks Money created the universe

like many people who make your arguments, you are really emotionally invested in not admitting any space for religion in the world

― Burt Stuntin (Hurting 2), Tuesday, February 11, 2014 3:16 PM (10 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

why do you think that is?

― Burt Stuntin (Hurting 2), Tuesday, February 11, 2014 3:17 PM (10 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

This isn't really directed at Hurting, but theists in general.

like many people who make your arguments, you are really emotionally invested in preserving any space for religion in the world. why do you think that is?

See where it gets you to make things psychoanalytically personal?

Scientific progression, because the internet, because democratization of knowledge, because "I know more than you" or "I saw that meme first" is how you pray towards the god Information. Animated gif Iconography, fan fiction gaming mods, cosplayers pretending to be comic book gods in movies that make more money than whole nations.

i suspect you've never suffered from acid reflux if you'd describe it as a warm fuzzy feeling

― Mordy , Tuesday, February 11, 2014 3:55 PM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

man is there anything you can't suck all of the fun out of

To be fair that's always the first thing that comes to mind when I hear that quote

re: "why do you think that is?"...because I think overall religion is a negative force in the world. I would be happy to see it go.

like many people who make your arguments, you are really emotionally invested in preserving any space for religion in the world. why do you think that is?

Because the purpose of religion for many people is primarily emotional, not explanatory. That's what you're missing.

But you can't separate religion anymore than you can separate violence or frowning from the world, can you?

gee I never thought of that, Hurting, thanks.

I just have a problem with how critical thinking isn't applied to religion. Lots of people that believe in that stuff would never believe in other things that have the same exact standard of evidence

the space that religion inhabits has been shrinking steadily. a logical conclusion would be that one day, MAYBE, it will inhabit no space

re: "why do you think that is?"...because I think overall religion is a negative force in the world. I would be happy to see it go.

― A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Tuesday, February 11, 2014 5:32 PM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

And this is exactly the kind of statement that you could never fully back up with scientific evidence, even if you could set up clear, objective parameters for what is meant by "overall a negative force in the world" which you can't

I don't think anyone believes science will answer every question.

xp

My whole focus here was on the misleading nature of subjective experience and how that relates to the explanatory aspects of religion. Going "well people 'believe' for other reasons" is a retort for an entirely different conversation.

man is there anything you can't suck all of the fun out of

― Lesbian has fucking riffs for days (Neanderthal), Tuesday, February 11, 2014 5:29 PM (6 minutes ago) Bookmark

sorry for sucking the fun out of acid reflux for u

actually, it's the conversation we were having when you showed up in the thread

that's why I put the words "I think" in there

It would be a better world if critical thinking were applied in not just religion but everywhere else.

and how was that conversation going? "oh hai did you guys know some people get emotional benefits from believing in a supernatural creator?" "oh no way? seriously? link please??"

xp
Then to be blunt surely if there will always be gaps in what we can know then there will always be room for religion.

And this is exactly the kind of statement that you could never fully back up with scientific evidence, even if you could set up clear, objective parameters for what is meant by "overall a negative force in the world" which you can't

What would the world be like without science? Would we all be running around naked eating vegetables and living to 200?

I don't think anyone believes science will answer every question.

this was kinda the beginning of the whole discussion - the lacuna between the neurology + the content, one ultimately accessible and the other not?

sorry for sucking the fun out of acid reflux for u

― Mordy , Tuesday, February 11, 2014 5:38 PM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

is there like a bat signal that you respond to

(ftr, I not only know what reflux is, but have regurgitated in my sleep many times as a result of it.....)

then wtf are you talking about if u have personal experience? it feels like someone splashing acid against the inside of your chest.

- Bob Marley

Xp

actually, it's the conversation we were having when you showed up in the thread

Then myself and Evan showed up and started talking about explanatory stuff. keep up, pal!

Then to be blunt surely if there will always be gaps in what we can know then there will always be room for religion

Eh I don't think religion is going anywhere bit this is kinda question-beggy; i.e. assuming that "religion" (if we can even agree on what we mean by that - surely it means something other than just "not-science") will remain among the set of potential gap-fillers.

while we're being all 'durrrrrrr' theologically faith doesn't often rest on proof; sometimes faith despite evidence to the contrary is praiseworthy, etc.

otm

It would be a better world if critical thinking were applied in not just religion but everywhere else.

― Emperor Cos Dashit (Adam Bruneau), Tuesday, February 11, 2014 5:38 PM (9 minutes ago)

Agreed!

Does the knowledge of how a film is actually made prevent you from getting engrossed in the story? Like do you sit there going "that's an over-the-shoulder shot -- he's not even in the same room as Nicole Kidman and that's the back of a double's head"?