And that provided you aren't actually using this subjective belief to make objective explanations or predictions about the material world, it's no crazier than saying stuff like "I love you" or "that's funny"
― Burt Stuntin (Hurting 2), Tuesday, 11 February 2014 22:12 (ten years ago) link
Preeeeeeeeeeeeeeeetty sure people have seen elements with their naked eye.
http://blogs-images.forbes.com/afontevecchia/files/2011/11/Gold-Bars-in-Fort-Knox.jpg
That one is number 79. You're welcome.
― Ian from Etobicoke (Phil D.), Tuesday, 11 February 2014 22:13 (ten years ago) link
those comparisons are wack. I love you because Zeus has made it so. That's funny because little elves are tickling my funny bone.
― A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Tuesday, 11 February 2014 22:14 (ten years ago) link
and gravity and electromagnetiism aren't things, but the observable effects of things.
― A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Tuesday, 11 February 2014 22:15 (ten years ago) link
And that provided you aren't actually using this subjective belief to make objective explanations or predictions about the material world,
― Burt Stuntin (Hurting 2), Tuesday, 11 February 2014 22:16 (ten years ago) link
like many people who make your arguments, you are really emotionally invested in not admitting any space for religion in the world
why do you think that is?
― Burt Stuntin (Hurting 2), Tuesday, 11 February 2014 22:17 (ten years ago) link
wait wait lemme lie down on a couch, doc
― A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Tuesday, 11 February 2014 22:18 (ten years ago) link
My point is that a purely subjective belief in god is valid and it's silly to try to argue that eventually science will obviate that― Burt Stuntin (Hurting 2), Tuesday, February 11, 2014 5:11 PM (6 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
― Burt Stuntin (Hurting 2), Tuesday, February 11, 2014 5:11 PM (6 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
otm
― Emperor Cos Dashit (Adam Bruneau), Tuesday, 11 February 2014 22:18 (ten years ago) link
Doesn't our history as a species discovering why something works scientifically and replacing the magic based theories suggest that trajectory will continue?
― Evan, Tuesday, 11 February 2014 22:19 (ten years ago) link
Yes but the history is also of people doing things for silly beliefs as well and that will continue.
― Emperor Cos Dashit (Adam Bruneau), Tuesday, 11 February 2014 22:21 (ten years ago) link
Like you guys are forgetting that alchemy gave birth to chemistry, astrology to astronomy, etc.
the space that religion inhabits has been shrinking steadily. a logical conclusion would be that one day, MAYBE, it will inhabit no space. I have no sentiment tied to religion, so that's fine by me. I see no need to believe in things that have no proof and perhaps can never be proved one way or the other, and that as you said shouldn't allow you to make explanations and predictions about the material world (reminds me of The Ether). if someone wants to believe in spiritual/supernatural stuff, that's fine so long as they keep it to themselves more or less. I have nothing to compel me to believe in such things.
― A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Tuesday, 11 February 2014 22:22 (ten years ago) link
it will continue. indefinitely? you don't know
― A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Tuesday, 11 February 2014 22:23 (ten years ago) link
I would say there is lots of religion. Basically pop culture, celebrities, wealth, etc. has replaced the old gods. People still have weird rituals that have nothing to do with physical survival and are there for mainly psychological reasons. You who submit to your iPhone.
― Emperor Cos Dashit (Adam Bruneau), Tuesday, 11 February 2014 22:23 (ten years ago) link
where all my alchemy believers at!??!
if you want to stretch "religion" to mean all those things, it's a meaningless term but you win the argument
― A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Tuesday, 11 February 2014 22:24 (ten years ago) link
― Emperor Cos Dashit (Adam Bruneau), Tuesday, February 11, 2014 5:23 PM (29 seconds ago)
Sure, but is this a counterpoint? What does it have to do with scientific progression?
― Evan, Tuesday, 11 February 2014 22:25 (ten years ago) link
How is it a stretch to say money is God? Every day people are killed in the name of money, you know? I consider this dangerous, cultish behavior.
― Emperor Cos Dashit (Adam Bruneau), Tuesday, 11 February 2014 22:26 (ten years ago) link
because no one thinks Money created the universe
― A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Tuesday, 11 February 2014 22:27 (ten years ago) link
like many people who make your arguments, you are really emotionally invested in not admitting any space for religion in the world― Burt Stuntin (Hurting 2), Tuesday, February 11, 2014 3:16 PM (10 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalinkwhy do you think that is?― Burt Stuntin (Hurting 2), Tuesday, February 11, 2014 3:17 PM (10 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
― Burt Stuntin (Hurting 2), Tuesday, February 11, 2014 3:16 PM (10 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
― Burt Stuntin (Hurting 2), Tuesday, February 11, 2014 3:17 PM (10 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
This isn't really directed at Hurting, but theists in general.
like many people who make your arguments, you are really emotionally invested in preserving any space for religion in the world. why do you think that is?
See where it gets you to make things psychoanalytically personal?
― A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Tuesday, 11 February 2014 22:29 (ten years ago) link
Scientific progression, because the internet, because democratization of knowledge, because "I know more than you" or "I saw that meme first" is how you pray towards the god Information. Animated gif Iconography, fan fiction gaming mods, cosplayers pretending to be comic book gods in movies that make more money than whole nations.
― Emperor Cos Dashit (Adam Bruneau), Tuesday, 11 February 2014 22:29 (ten years ago) link
i suspect you've never suffered from acid reflux if you'd describe it as a warm fuzzy feeling
― Mordy , Tuesday, February 11, 2014 3:55 PM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
man is there anything you can't suck all of the fun out of
― Lesbian has fucking riffs for days (Neanderthal), Tuesday, 11 February 2014 22:29 (ten years ago) link
To be fair that's always the first thing that comes to mind when I hear that quote
― tsrobodo, Tuesday, 11 February 2014 22:30 (ten years ago) link
re: "why do you think that is?"...because I think overall religion is a negative force in the world. I would be happy to see it go.
― A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Tuesday, 11 February 2014 22:32 (ten years ago) link
Because the purpose of religion for many people is primarily emotional, not explanatory. That's what you're missing.
― Burt Stuntin (Hurting 2), Tuesday, 11 February 2014 22:33 (ten years ago) link
But you can't separate religion anymore than you can separate violence or frowning from the world, can you?
― Emperor Cos Dashit (Adam Bruneau), Tuesday, 11 February 2014 22:33 (ten years ago) link
gee I never thought of that, Hurting, thanks.
― A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Tuesday, 11 February 2014 22:34 (ten years ago) link
I just have a problem with how critical thinking isn't applied to religion. Lots of people that believe in that stuff would never believe in other things that have the same exact standard of evidence
― Evan, Tuesday, 11 February 2014 22:35 (ten years ago) link
the space that religion inhabits has been shrinking steadily. a logical conclusion would be that one day, MAYBE, it will inhabit no space
― tsrobodo, Tuesday, 11 February 2014 22:36 (ten years ago) link
― A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Tuesday, February 11, 2014 5:32 PM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
And this is exactly the kind of statement that you could never fully back up with scientific evidence, even if you could set up clear, objective parameters for what is meant by "overall a negative force in the world" which you can't
― Burt Stuntin (Hurting 2), Tuesday, 11 February 2014 22:36 (ten years ago) link
I don't think anyone believes science will answer every question.
xp
― Evan, Tuesday, 11 February 2014 22:37 (ten years ago) link
My whole focus here was on the misleading nature of subjective experience and how that relates to the explanatory aspects of religion. Going "well people 'believe' for other reasons" is a retort for an entirely different conversation.
― A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Tuesday, 11 February 2014 22:38 (ten years ago) link
― Lesbian has fucking riffs for days (Neanderthal), Tuesday, February 11, 2014 5:29 PM (6 minutes ago) Bookmark
sorry for sucking the fun out of acid reflux for u
― Mordy , Tuesday, 11 February 2014 22:38 (ten years ago) link
actually, it's the conversation we were having when you showed up in the thread
― Burt Stuntin (Hurting 2), Tuesday, 11 February 2014 22:38 (ten years ago) link
that's why I put the words "I think" in there
It would be a better world if critical thinking were applied in not just religion but everywhere else.
― Emperor Cos Dashit (Adam Bruneau), Tuesday, 11 February 2014 22:38 (ten years ago) link
and how was that conversation going? "oh hai did you guys know some people get emotional benefits from believing in a supernatural creator?" "oh no way? seriously? link please??"
― A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Tuesday, 11 February 2014 22:39 (ten years ago) link
xpThen to be blunt surely if there will always be gaps in what we can know then there will always be room for religion.
― tsrobodo, Tuesday, 11 February 2014 22:40 (ten years ago) link
What would the world be like without science? Would we all be running around naked eating vegetables and living to 200?
― Emperor Cos Dashit (Adam Bruneau), Tuesday, 11 February 2014 22:40 (ten years ago) link
this was kinda the beginning of the whole discussion - the lacuna between the neurology + the content, one ultimately accessible and the other not?
― Mordy , Tuesday, 11 February 2014 22:41 (ten years ago) link
― Mordy , Tuesday, February 11, 2014 5:38 PM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
is there like a bat signal that you respond to
(ftr, I not only know what reflux is, but have regurgitated in my sleep many times as a result of it.....)
― Lesbian has fucking riffs for days (Neanderthal), Tuesday, 11 February 2014 22:41 (ten years ago) link
then wtf are you talking about if u have personal experience? it feels like someone splashing acid against the inside of your chest.
― Mordy , Tuesday, 11 February 2014 22:42 (ten years ago) link
- Bob Marley
Xp
― Ian from Etobicoke (Phil D.), Tuesday, 11 February 2014 22:42 (ten years ago) link
Then myself and Evan showed up and started talking about explanatory stuff. keep up, pal!
― A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Tuesday, 11 February 2014 22:45 (ten years ago) link
Then to be blunt surely if there will always be gaps in what we can know then there will always be room for religion
Eh I don't think religion is going anywhere bit this is kinda question-beggy; i.e. assuming that "religion" (if we can even agree on what we mean by that - surely it means something other than just "not-science") will remain among the set of potential gap-fillers.
― Ian from Etobicoke (Phil D.), Tuesday, 11 February 2014 22:47 (ten years ago) link
while we're being all 'durrrrrrr' theologically faith doesn't often rest on proof; sometimes faith despite evidence to the contrary is praiseworthy, etc.
― Mordy , Tuesday, 11 February 2014 22:47 (ten years ago) link
― Emperor Cos Dashit (Adam Bruneau), Tuesday, 11 February 2014 22:48 (ten years ago) link
― Emperor Cos Dashit (Adam Bruneau), Tuesday, February 11, 2014 5:38 PM (9 minutes ago)
Agreed!
― Evan, Tuesday, 11 February 2014 22:49 (ten years ago) link
Does the knowledge of how a film is actually made prevent you from getting engrossed in the story? Like do you sit there going "that's an over-the-shoulder shot -- he's not even in the same room as Nicole Kidman and that's the back of a double's head"?
― Burt Stuntin (Hurting 2), Tuesday, 11 February 2014 22:55 (ten years ago) link