Bitcoins

paypal is a global money transfer network (and a bank in some countries, fwiw) and I'm sure they have currency exchange hedges

whatever you wouldnt need to is the point, the larger point is that all this is basically possible right now

also do you mean you transfer the money from your phone service account via paypal? otherwise how would you do this without a bank account or credit card?

you have a bank account via yr phone which is also capable of behaving like a debit card

it might not be a full service bank account like we recognize but its basically a bank account

http://www.cnbc.com/id/101180469

fwiw:
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-11-28/bitcoin-service-targets-kenya-remittances-with-cut-rate-fees-1-.html

interesting

BitPesa will charge 3 percent on overseas transfers and says the money arrives the same day. At that rate, it would cost $6 to send $200 via BitPesa.

~same rate as paypal tho

I'll wager paypal doesn't allow any withdrawals to kenyan banks

It looks to me like Paypal does not serve Kenya. Also their fee for a lot of other countries appears to be 3.9%

I think they might even charge 3% to send and 3% to receive. Skimming on both sides, fucking assholes

they only charge 3% to withdraw theres no fee for sending or receiving, they can extend to kenya any time they want, lol at thinking an imaginary bitcoin operation is differentiating themselves with a .9% savings

i mean do you see hurting this is what everyone has been telling you for the last 24 hours, someone introduces a bitcoin service like you were suggesting is a game changer and they charge the same type of fee that established services already charge, and they dont even exist yet, they havent even had a chance to deal with real world complications, their naive estimation of what they need to charge is even the same as paypal!

Actually, in many countries with paypal you have to pay a 3.9% fee to "receive" the funds internationally, AND a withdrawal fee to withdraw, just fyi. Also, the the difference between a 3% fee and a 3.9% fee is nearly 25%. And the M-PESA fees appear to be higher. As for your other speculative arguments, I could just as easily speculate in the other direction -- maybe they can charge 3% because they're still the only bitcoin-based game in town and they still have competitive advantage over other options, and maybe if other bitcoin-based competitors open up shop they'll be forced to go cheaper.

Not saying you're definitely wrong, but the infrastructure of the bitcoin transfer itself is immensely cheaper than the infrastructure behind a traditional money-transfer, so the only question is whether the costs on either end cancel that savings out.

sry, MORE THAN 25%. It's actually 30%, to be exact.

Not saying you're definitely wrong, but the infrastructure of the bitcoin transfer itself is immensely cheaper than the infrastructure behind a traditional money-transfer, so the only question is whether the costs on either end cancel that savings out.

― signed, J.P. Morgan CEO (Hurting 2), Thursday, January 23, 2014 12:37 PM (31 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

it would be kind of fun to have a discussion about bitcoiin but this sort of total belief in something you clearly know nothing about (not that any of us is an expert) is why nothing youre saying is landing with anyone itt fwiw

and like just general willful ignorance of business, do you really think paypal, a business that produced multiple millioares, couldnt cut its rates to compete

multiple billionaires sry

i mean omg a 30% difference from an imaginary company what will paypal ever do

lol if it really was this unstoppable new technology they could just make their own internal bitcoin that like actual worked

Lagoon, honestly this is a headsmackingly obvious point, like it's kind of incomprehensible to me that you are even arguing over the bolded part of that sentence. I could send you any amount of bitcoin that I owned (for the record, I own none), right now, at no cost, anywhere in the world, instantaneously. There's basically no infrastructure involved except the internet itself. I could not do the same thing, directly, with USD or any other currency.

Like you really seem to think that computers just allow you to beam money directly from point A to ponit B, like you are so used to making online payments that you think the money is just going in one end of the internet and out the other.

"Paypal could just lower fees to compete" lol, so any time a business has a cheaper way to do something, it doesn't matter, because the business with higher costs to do the same thing will just lower their fees to compete. Interesting take on capitalism.

Like you really seem to think that computers just allow you to beam money directly from point A to ponit B, like you are so used to making online payments that you think the money is just going in one end of the internet and out the other.

― signed, J.P. Morgan CEO (Hurting 2), Thursday, January 23, 2014 1:17 PM (5 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

im sorry to have to break this to you but thats how it works, the costs associated with running paypal are not those of beaming money all over the wold

its all 100% automated just like bitcoin

also like i said if there are somehow huge saving in one form of automation over the other it would be trivial for paypal to build their own internal bitcoin that actually works

Like you really seem to think that computers just allow you to beam money directly from point A to ponit B, like you are so used to making online payments that you think the money is just going in one end of the internet and out the other.

― signed, J.P. Morgan CEO (Hurting 2), Thursday, January 23, 2014 1:17 PM (5 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

this depiction of me as some button pushing rube that implies you as the knowledgeable counterpart is so ridiculous, you shd goto reddit where theyve got all this stuff totally figured out

like you literally have no idea what the costs associated with moving money around the world are, you should start by admiting that, then try to build an argument from there

can't you guys see that this bitcoin beef is tearing us apart

http://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2013/jan/30/africans-pay-most-send-money

average cost of remittance paid btw Tanzania and Kenya is 22%. But no problem, the established players in that market will just lower their fees to 3% to compete. NBD.

I could send you any amount of bitcoin that I owned (for the record, I own none), right now, at no cost, anywhere in the world, instantaneously.

don't you have to 'tip' someone to verify though

Maybe you should go set up a service in Tanzania and Kenya. Charge like 15% -- you'd undercut the competition and make a killing. I'm sure it barely costs anything to start such an operation, you just need computers so you can send money back and forth.

average cost of remittance paid btw Tanzania and Kenya is 22%. But no problem, the established players in that market will just lower their fees to 3% to compete. NBD.

― signed, J.P. Morgan CEO (Hurting 2), Thursday, January 23, 2014 1:42 PM (12 seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

like i already totally explained upthread bitcoin is not competing with that, its competing with the other internet based services, i mean its not competing with anything at all right now, its non functional, paypal et al work

And all I ever said that it was possible that it could be competitive in the future.

im sure there are already millions of people all over the world getting remittance via the net and avoiding those fee but that requires the infrastructure that bitcoin also requites

they don't get remittances "via the net" they get them via a service via the net, a service that requires a lot more infrastructure to do a transfer than bitcoin does

im sure there are people who have the internet and computers who are taking advantage of internet service like paypal in just the same way you or i would

we are going in circles here

soon via the penetration of smart phones thn number of people who can do that will be pretty much all of them, there wont be any storefront money wirer nessisary

circles round the coin

poll which one of you is being trolled rn

hurting owns bitcoins is my working theory

Total speculation, but I'd say there's at least a 50/50 chance Bitcoin (or another crypto-currency like it) survives in some form. I wouldn't buy Bitcoins as an investment though.

i cld see the technology of bitcoin being useful and even crypto currencies surviving in the gray/black market but its a non starter as a major consumer tool imo

I own zero bitcoins

dogecoins?

umm...with regard to dogecoins...HEY LOOK OVER THERE!

you have to throw the stick

http://lh5.ggpht.com/RuY2VEJLX2UuilVj2-xYIpv1wcvDzx_hy5zP0cX8Ize079WcEQsNggARrpguRc-TmACLo_RjnetCXNVSN51ovjrGqPWHAfgZPlbn%3Ds630