london

Interesting seeing taht about Waltham Forest since it was the borough I lived in from the age of 1 until I left the UK. Wonder when what was designated Eppng Forest was designated. Is it a designation that was agreed on bureaucratically and missed part of what was being redesignated from Waltham Forest, which judging from what is being said here may have been a pretty large area.
I missed seeing Waltham Abbey over Xmas cos I was in bed coughing and sneezing phlegm while my mum, brother and his girlfriend went out there for a walk. Subsequently not sure how far out Waltham Abbey is but am thinking its upwards of 20 miles away from Walthamstow. I never have understood what the inter-relationship between various Walthams in roughly the same area is. Is it a historic thing connected to a baronry or something?

I do know how far out Epping is roughly which is quite a distance. But I still wouldn't know exactly, so calling everything in that large area Epping Forest outside of it having to do with who was looking after it seems a bit vague. Again I should probably know what the history is since I grew up in that area, I was in Woodford Green before moving to Walthamstow. Educated from pre-school in that area.

The gentrification of Herne Hill seems to have preceded that of Brixton by several years, so I'm going on that really. But the Brixton thing has probably accelerated it.

ayo, what's a good wood in SE? Done Nunhead reservoir/One Tree Hill to death

Dulwich and Sydenham Hill woods are fairly small but you can get lost in them and there are some awesome views over London and some fun things hidden away in them, like this folly:

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_ZGrx2SwpQ4Q/TLtd0THYMhI/AAAAAAAAB-s/-ShCkE5mI7I/s1600/sydenham.jpg

Oxleas Wood, up past Blackheath, is fantastic as well, plus it has Severndroog Castle in it.

I am trying to remember what -stowe means as a place name suffix, but my memory is so befuddled! I think this is the key on which this hinges.

Wikipedia has it that Walthamstow is nothing to do with Waltham at all, but was Welcome-stow, and was corrupted by drift into the name of the nearby forest.

Epping Forest used to be much, much larger than it is presently; it covered much of Essex and bits of Hertfordshire, IIRC.

Waltham is from the Saxon Weald-ham (Weald, as in Kent, meaning deep woods or wild land) so all the bits of Waltham are so named because of their proximinity to the great hunting forest of Epping - ham (village) by the weald (woods). Which is why all the Walthams are so removed from one another; a massive great royal hunting forest used to be in the way.

Still not sure about Walthamstow - ah, but here. Stow in old English placenames = "place of assembly" or "holy place." Can't see how it would be the "holy place" with the Abbey being the holy centre of the district. Perhaps the outside-the-forest assembly place for the hundred associated with the forest?

Actually no, I've got the place name lookup server online again and it's Welcome's Stow. Naught to do with Waltham originally at all:

http://kepn.nottingham.ac.uk/map/place/Essex/Walthamstow

x-post that folly is in the remains of the Great North Wood! I've been there!

Cheers Matt, might amble down Rye Lane and down to Dulwich woods on saturday and then use the Pizza Express gift card Father Christmas got me on Saturday, then do Oxleas on Sunday. Perfect weekend.

queries: why is finsbury park so far away from finsbury?

what about tottenham court road?

and are forest hill and forest gate so named for the sole purpose of getting people to go to the wrong ends of london by mistake for laughs?

see also Shooters Hill and Shoot Up Hill.

The gentrification of Herne Hill seems to have preceded that of Brixton by several years, so I'm going on that really.

Ah OK, don't think I agree with that, but I've been through that upthread.

I think "stow" just meant "place" in middle English.

http://thumbs4.ebaystatic.com/d/l225/m/ml2hpZwbnZc4a7-dFnQXWaw.jpg

Thing I hadn't really taken into account is Brixton being on the Tube, which is almost certainly a factor.

...and the FCC direct to St Pancras, as far as HH is concerned. The residents of the HH forum were having nervous breakdowns when they thought they were going to lose it.

See, that's what makes me think HH is Dulwich overspill, because they are on the overground lines (I'm not sure the same line, or connect via Tulse Hill? I'm almost certain I have got to Dulwich from Herne Hill though I couldn't tell you how). Brixton is for people who get the bends if they go off the tube system.

Oh! And Ken, the whole thing with double names in central/outer London such as Finsbury/Finsbury Park, Tottenham/Tottenham Court Road, Bedford Square/Bedfordshire - usually when that happens it's because both patches of land were owned by the same Lord of the Manor - one would have been his townhouse in London, the other a country estate at remove of a day's ride. When they were sold or developed, both would end up with the same name, whether it was the patronymic or the family seat's name.

Forests and Shooters/ups and Mansion House/Manor House were done because the Saxons had a bastard sense of humour and were trying to confuse the Normans into besieging the wrong part of town. Clearly.

...subsequently not sure how far out Waltham Abbey is but am thinking its upwards of 20 miles away from Walthamstow...I do know how far out Epping is roughly which is quite a distance

Crazy talk. Waltham Abbey / Waltham Cross / Epping are all about 10 or 11 miles from Walthamstow. I know because I regularly cycle from Walthamstow out through the forest to Essex. Even Harlow is less than 20 miles away.

I don't think the Normans were basing their siege plans on the tube map.

Xpost

Hush, Earl of Clerkenwell!

I think I'm now of the Thornbury Marches, although quite frankly the prestonian hordes can come right in, it's too hot to raise the drawbridge.

Avast with thee to the SheepfuX0rs, you are of our parish no more! ;-)

what do people make of plaistow? west ham?

I like going there for Green Street market, which feels like Brick Lane/Whitechapel before white hipsters happened to either. If you're looking for a home, try to find one as near Wanstead Flats as you can go, because you're used to having a decent park nearby and perhaps not used to East Ham supporters all over the place.

On a similar theme, are Hainault / Fairlop nice? Looks like a lot of open, green space but possibly not much else going on.

suzy would you say forest gate could be good too? that seems nearer wanstead flats.

there's something hilarious to me about the fact that there's a train station around there called "maryland"

Try to find somewhere near to the Piccadilly or Central Line - I've been recommending Leyton/stone because a lot of artists and writers w/kids have gone there from Hackney, and I've been recommending Turnpike Lane/Manor House/South Tottenham/Seven Sisters because it's not too far into Zone 3. There's also an area in upper Leyton called Bushwood which has a Wanstead postcode, where a lot of people seem to be trying to buy, too.

The worst thing about E6/E7/E12 is having to use the fucking District Line. If you fancy a walk around there at the weekend to check it out, give me a shout because any excuse for a trip to Green Street market...

haha re forest hill/gate further upthread i forgot there's a DLR station called "Abbey Road" that is nowhere near Fab four.

it seems ridiculous but my sister and i once went down to stratford, london and perplex as to why Shakespeare has to do with a crappy shopping centre (this was before olympics when it became a slightly bigger crappy shopping centre)

were perplexed

Am currently kind of obsessed with Pollard's Hill.

If I found that park in Wilshire or somewhere, I would say that was an iron age hillfort, with a motte and bailey constructed on top of it. But no, it is a strange park in suburban South London.

anybody have opinions on higham hill? south chingford?

am caught in frantic scrabble for someplace affordable to live

Higham Hill is Walthamstow, so good luck with that - it's all open houses and guide prices around there.

How much time have you got to find someplace?

Higham Hill is pretty unremarkable too, though nicer on the Lloyd Park/Chingford Rd side as opposed to the Blackhorse Rd end.

Lloyd Park is nice but it's got ludicrously expensive round there.

Why did all these bastards find out about Walthamstow before I could buy a place :(

rent 4 lyfe

I love Chingford. Highams Park is a really nice area. Good school too.

he local MP would be a deal-breaker, surely? ;-)

Whenever I read people talking about where to get property in London, I thank God we were in a position to buy in the mid-90s. We've got a three bedroom house in Kentish Town. If we were starting out now, I think we'd have to be looking at somewhere in the very outer suburbs to get that space.

Xp

The local MP is apparently surprisingly affable in person. He's one of the few Tory big guns who comes across like he doesn't really enjoy the destruction, even though he thinks it's necessary.

A colleague was living in the flat upstairs from the local MP and said that he and his kids were polite, but MP was a nocturnal creature who could be heard muttering into a telephone/yelling into same and loudly typing stuff well into the small hours.

East Ham supporters all over the place

Those poor guys, wandering around without a match for ages: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_Ham_United_F.C.

anybody have opinions on higham hill? south chingford?

Higham Hill is the north-west corner of Walthamstow, stuck out in isolation because it's hemmed in by marshes and reservoirs. The further north-west you go, the more non-descript it becomes. If you start off in the Lloyd Park area it's all nice-ish red-brick Victorian/Edwardian terraces, but as you head north-west it gets a bit scruffier and has less character, lots of boring suburban semis. Over by Blackhorse Road it's just a big industrial estate.

Confusingly, Highams Park is a totally different place in south-eastern Chingford. This seems quite nice (I've got a colleague* who lives there), but I've always assumed it's expensive (not that I've checked).

*who does not have nice things to say about the MP, fwiw

It's pretty expensive now. Lots of nice houses going for four or five times what they were bought for in 2000 or thereabouts.

i've been visiting estate agents and getting v, v depressed about my future in london

had i started looking 4 years ago, or even 2 years ago, i'd probably be able to live in a neighbourhood i liked, or had at least visited before

http://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2014/jan/28/eastenders-revamp-gentrified-east-london

do hipsters go to wine bars?

http://www.sagerandwilde.com/

i see no hipsters

Fifteen years ago, people wondered where the Asians, Turkish people and the artists were.

That is a hipster wine bar, for sure. As such, it's something of a rarity in London though.

Peckham Refreshment Rooms might be another, I think. But there aren't many as far as I know.

MY BANK IS NOW A TRENDY WINE BAR.

But now I really freaking miss The Foundry. Even the trendy wine bars have been knocked down for expensive investment flats.