Sea Devils And Die: GeroniMoffat's Doctor Who In The 2010s

Midway through the Kate Lethbridge-Stewart's transformation into a Zygon she looked exactly like Theresa May. I'd like to think that was intentional.

I think Hurt was great. Loved how fun he was, while still showing a war-weary dark side.

I thought he was mostly great. I definitely thought he was the right choice for a War Doctor. But the 'fun' aspect just didn't jibe with what the war-weary side should have been -> this is a problem with the writing, not the actor, and also a pretty big problem to balance.

After all, he set up the 'name of the doctor' idea way back in series 5 with the space whale.

Expand?

I didn't find it too jarring. He was introduced as pretty bad-ass, but once he's pulled out of the Time War into a jolly romp with the other Doctors, his more Doctorly side comes out.

'name of the doctor' The Doctor says if he kills the spacewhale he'll have to renounce the name of the Doctor. But then Amy saves the day with wuv, so he escaped that moral quandary. I suppose we could see all this as an update of 'have i the right' in Genesis of the Daleks.

Only thing really confusing me now is that I always figured the Doctor originally stole the TARDIS to escape the blowing up planet but now it feels like he stole it for other reasons then just lived for 1000 years or so and then went back to his home planet to fight in the time war(?). So why did he steal the TARDIS in the 1st (Hartnell) place? Is this ever explained?

Not entirely, I think it's always been implied that it was mainly boredom and thirst for adventure.

But yeah Gallifrey was doing perfectly fine when he made off with it.

Ok cool.

I'm not a Doctor, but I'm pretty sure that if I was on the verge of killing my people a little romp wouldn't swing me out of my bad mood. But that's why I say it's a difficult balancing act, because who wants Dr Who to be unutterably despairing and depressing (well, aside from big old gothy me)? Yet it's going to be disappointing if you're thrown out of your suspension of disbelief. But I reckon kids would be more believing of the weird mood-swingy thing, little kids perfectly understand the move from "waaaaaah it's the end of the world" to "oh, an ice cream! Yeay!"

/I thought he was mostly great. I definitely thought he was the right choice for a War Doctor. But the 'fun' aspect just didn't jibe with what the war-weary side should have been -> this is a problem with the writing, not the actor, and also a pretty big problem to balance.

A thousand times THIS. Which is why the Time War was a bad topic for the special. IMHO.

In Eccleston's first episode it's heavily implied he's just regenerated, so although he has survivor's guilt, he's a different regeneration to the Doctor who blew up Gallifrey, which we would have previously assumed to be McGann

I watched 'Rose' again a few months ago, and I don't see this at all.

Wasn't he worried about the size of his ears, and didn't know what he looked like until he looked in a mirror (disclaimer: haven't seen it for years)

Yeah he's closer to the Fast Show's "aren't Xs brilliant!" enthusiasm guy in that first episode xp

He looks in the mirror and says something like "big ears, but could be worse" so it implies he's just regenerated.

But doesn't Rose uncover loads of pics on the internet of Eccles in various historical locations, implying he's been Doctoring for a while?

wibbley wobbley timey wimey

yes, or he appears in all of those photos later in his own timeline or does it not work that way?

timey wimey

goes ding

lol xp

But then he would have to have been with Rose for all those photos, which I guess is possible if they're unseen adventures and she happens to have been (will have been?) out of shot in all of them.

Can't remember the Ecclestone backstory bits but Tennant and Smith both definitely had periods of many years that they lived separately from their companions, despite it seeming to said companions that they'd been away for a day, a month, or sometimes a few years. Perfectly possible that Ecclestone did this too.

There are no such obvious gaps in Nine and Rose's travels as far as I remember, though I could be wrong.

Yeah I think That may be what timey wimey refered to. except that maybe the story writers weren't paying attention to things and didn't provide gaps where they should have. I'm trying to think if there is a point at which the two are separated mid season since he's with her at the end.
& if he hasn't had a prior chance to see his own reflection, unless he is really vain it would seem strange if that had happened prior to his meeting Rose.

So looks like it was probably an oversight, or do the 2 part at the end of the 1st episode then he come back to pick her up for some reason, which might indicate it happened in that interval?
Of course it presumably wasn't known that he was going to quit in mid season before that sequence was shot giving him dotting throughout history. So maybe they were thinking there would be time afterwards to do that.

Or at least have announced the same before the season aired. Which is what I think happened isn't it?

Or I guess they could've split up and reunited between episodes.

I like the idea of Nine having had a period of lonely angstful wandering before being reconnected to humanity by Rose better though.

xpost

There's probably a racist/patronising/modern-centric explanation which says he was just never near a mirror until Rose, having been in remote places. (Which is clearly bollocks but, you know, Rusty.)

The real answer though is probably

HOOT! Wouldn't it be cool if The Doctor doesn't know what he looks like! And when he sees himself in the mirror he can make a joke about his ears, in a slight rework of the script in Robot and Spearhead! HOOT!
HOOT! A sad fat loser has been paying attention to what's been happening to the Doctor while he's been off television! He can have been at famous events in the past, like when the show did historicals, and the fat loser can get the wrong end of the stick! Then we can do sad music when the Autons shoot him! HOOT!
HOOT! HANDWAVE! HOOT!
QUEL DOMMAGE!

You missed "I totally want to fuck the Doctor" but other than that OTM

There are no such obvious gaps in Nine and Rose's travels as far as I remember, though I could be wrong.

At one point Ecclestone tells Rose about the bicycle he left for her one Christmas when she was a little girl, so there's at least one occasion for him to have been off on his own since having met her.

You missed "I totally want to fuck the Doctor" but other than that OTM

I actually think Moff wants it more than Rusty, myself. They take turns in the annoying sweepstakes.

Yeah, Moff was the one making Doctor action figures hold hands.

The Five(ish) Doctors was better than the anniversary episode. Which was fun, but also grim.

Anyone interested in a series of 50th anniversary polls to determine the best story of each Doctor? Not been done before right? I'd try and time it to culminate in an 11th Doctor poll shortly after the broadcast of his final episode on the 25th.

Obviously there would be no poll for Eight.

I ran some before, at least for the b&w era.

Eight could have three series of polls, audios, novels and comics

Saw the 50th in 3D again this arvo, still fucken great you guys

I know I'm slow, but... when he's in the future or present his bow tie is red, and when he's in the past it's blue? Just like the vortex's colours when the Tardis travels (blue when it travels into the past, red when it's in the direction of the future, green is when it's complicated)? Cool.

Holy shit--I had never noticed any of that. Nice one!

uh, when would you notice that? the bow tie thing definitely isn't true, and are there any episodes in which the time vortex behaves that way?

well, that would explain it, then

all the rushing to this thread tells me everyone else hated it as well

yes, sic, yes, yes i know, yep, yep, yes, yes i know, yes sic, yes, okay yes, yes of course, yep, yep, yes, yes sic you're right, yes i know, yep, yes sic, yes but it really was a heaving and utterly convoluted bag of shit from start to finish

people not rushing to thread because it's christmas and there's other things happening? i liked it. from top to bottom. best xmas special since the relaunch

Smith's Doctor going out on a perfectly pitched "well this has all been pretty good fun, hasn't it?" note, nice antidote to the crazily overblown Tennant exit

all the rushing to this thread tells me everyone else hated it as well

This hasn't been broadcast in the US yet and most of us are still enjoying our families anyway

i'm sure people jumped into this thread rather more quickly in previous years

anyway don't rush away from your families for this one

bah humbug, this was better than most of the series that's just finished. and probably more enjoyable than the 50th special

this was better than most of the series that's just finished

i agree 100%, but probably not for the same reasons

it was very good. great three story run at the end of smith's tenure, with name/day/time.

I liked it! I was glad the Grand Moff tied up all the loose threads hanging around and had me convinced for a few seconds that he had indeed had some sort of masterplan all along. I teared up a few times, so it was a successful Christmas Special in my book.

my wife cried when the bow tie hit the ground, I consider that a success (she is basically a reluctant fan who would never admit it)

Grandstanding nonsense, but mostly very effective grandstanding nonsense. I enjoyed it loads and found it moving in parts.

Waiting for more people to post and explain the plot to me.

Specifically what the hell the invisible crack timelords were after.

They were in the pocket universe waiting to see if it was safe to come out, in case which the Doctor would've told them his name.

For all the villains they packed in and apocalpyticism, this was remarkably low-key! TBH, Matt Smith's address to the camera was a lot too thick -- Moff trying to go for a Prospero's epilogue (oops Tempest spoilers) a little too obviously/fan-servicey -- but I was really affected by Clara's desolation at her dinner.