Sub-editors: how can I avoid killing them?

There is a lot of shitty writing out there, someone has to clean it up! It can be kind of fun esp. if you appreciate clarity and precision in language. (Often I read articles & just want to ask.. what do you mean! Be clear! I don't know, maybe it was that analytic philosophy course that got to me..)

hahaha STET

that was me trying to stop myself ripping your head off.

and subby mcsub: respect ;)

x-post: gypsy mothra, even more respect. beautifully put.

anyway, i need to get on with the goddamn fucking fashion pages, or my drinking time will be severely curtailed.

Oh god, if I ever had to work with Grimly again ...

I've worked on both sides of the desk, and now that I write more than I edit I find it terrifying to send in work without a proper review process in place; it's like wirewalking without a net.

The only really annoying editor I've worked with was the one who inserted lewd jokes into the copy, ostensibly for my amusement. Even that might've been okay if they'd been funny.

Mad props for tomorrow's actually-sexy-for-once fashion spread, by the way. I told the girls it was your job to touch up the nipples in Photoshop.

Actually, that might improve the pages :)

and alba, i've never touched up a nipple in my life :p

*bangs head on brick wall for ever*

oh, and i've given up on the fashion until monday, when i can maybe - just maybe - effect some form of fucking communication between the fashion stylist and the picture editor.

the original poster was right? who would aspire to this? apart from a pedant with a god complex.

oh, hang on.

1) i hate how brits call copy editors "sub-editors." copy editors do a very different job than story editors, department editors, editors-in-chief. we're not sub-anything. we have our own job to do. (i say "we" because i've paid the bills this way for much of my adult life.)

2) everyone who said "if you don't want your piece butchered, brush up on whatever style or reference guides the publication uses, be aware of how long your piece should be and exceed that so that with the dead wood being cut out your best stuff is likelier to stay in, and no matter how much it pains you, get used to writing the kind of writing that editors like to publish, and if that bothers you go home and start a blog" OTM OTM OTM.

3) i've never butchered a strong piece. i've never had to. yes, you absolutely should take it personally. sorry.

Also, the most brilliant person I've ever known, the most brilliant person on ILX in my view, and its most dazzlingly good writer (all one person) is a sub-editor.

Ailsa, does anyone generally copy-edit job ads?

Ailsa: it has no subs! All those sections make me weep (I'm on the daily, btw)
xposts ahoy

that's the thing! if your writing truly does show originality and flair, that'll shine through no matter what the red pen does to it. trust me, a couple of word substitutions and deleted repetitions are not going to scratch the gleam off the hope diamond.

The job -- and the term -- comes from being literally the substitute for the editor

gotcha. don't understand why an editor would need a substitute, but i'm satisfied with your answer.

OTM re: flair. I find the ones who sound off the most about having it removed had hardly any to begin with, just high-school gimmery.

xpost: yeh? come and compete nationally with six quality papers and five tabloids for a market of five million readers in a landmass smaller than Oregon. You people don't know you're born!

I have no idea. You'd think, somewhere along the line, someone would, especially if it's in a national publication. The Her4ld is joyous compared to the horror that is the jobc3ntre website. Today I saw an advert for a job that required the applicant to work in a "fast paste environment". OK, "paced" *sounds* like "paste", but still, GET ONE COMMON SENSE!

That was supposed to be Jennifer Aniston in Office Space, wearing "flair" buttons.

"editors as allies" is very true. most editors want to have good working relationships with their writers. they want a stable of talented, reliable, open-minded people to draw from (and then all those fledgling jelus mofos can call it nepotism). you can't do that if you're a bridge-burning asshole.

The ad I answered to get my current job was riddled with mistakes, quite big ones too - a pretty good indicator of how crap our personnel section is, as it turns out - but I think it worked in my favour because I was one of very few people who went for it after realising that the length of the contract was 18 months and not 18 days as stated.

wtf does it mean when it says that, please?

http://homepage.mac.com/mattvant/Pix/TravMatt.jpg
"Aw thanks, Martin!"

one starts as a reporter and works their way up :)

what training do you have, emsk? the NUJ runs subbing courses all over the place: they'd be a good place to start.

also: i fear a large part of PA's subbing operation is now in yorkshire somewhere. (or is it lancashire? no, that's northern and shell. ach: subs please check.)

if you want, drop me an e-mail off board (use the webmail link or i'll not see it for years) and i can give you the benefit of my immense wisdom hem-hem-hem.

at 'think publishing.co.uk'

Ach, I'm booked until the end of October, and then without assignment from thereon in, but if I can be of any use in the future...

Thanks stevie, please feel free to send me over your contact details etc. We're looking at a big deadline crunch in October, and I'm sure there will be similar mad rushes in the future.