whiskey

I just had a buffalo trace old-fashioned the other night and was thinking "Man, I need to buy myself a bottle of this." Damnit. It's not surprising though, because the name comes up over and over again as a best value whiskey, and I guess word travels.

hurting, lotsa buffalo trace at astor wines and liquors. I was just standing in there and checking in on this thread.

Buffalo Trace is ample and abundant. Though maybe that is a bourbon that's all over the place here but harder to come by elsewhere? Can't believe it, though.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BY-vrklCYAAan2O.jpg

Ugh that sucks, looked better previously.

https://twitter.com/4RosesBourbon/status/400732055165599744

I was in the right place at the right time and was essentially offered a bottle each of the entire Van Winkle line (minus the elusive rye). Counted my money, processed my wife's reaction, and flashed back to "Ghostbusters:"

"When somebody asks you if you are a god, you say YES."

So I feel very lucky this year. I found a couple of extra bottles of 12, even, that I'm selling to friends, though there was a bit of a "Treasure of the Sierra Madre" thing going on, in that I absolutely wanted to make sure they went to folks I knew would drink and/or share, and not some jackasses flipping it in the secondary market. Because goddam, this is what it looks like literally the next day:

http://chicago.craigslist.org/search/sss/chc?query=pappy+van+winkle&zoomToPosting=&minAsk=&maxAsk=

People who do this are like the assholes who buy up all the hot kids toys each season to sell to the highest bidder.

josh - do you have exceptionally strong relationships with local shops? i'm curious, because on the west coast, your only option for a bottle of pappy et al is to get in a raffle, and most stores only have a couple bottles to raffle off to 5,000 entrants. the idea of being able to buy one outright or to have the whole set offered to you at MSRP is unheard of.

Different shops handle things differently. Some do lottos, some jack the price up, some have long waiting lists. The lamest bundle bottles of Pappy with other purchases. Like, if you bought two other bottles of Buffalo Trace product, you get to buy a bottle of 10 year. Three bottles gets you a chance to buy a bottle of 12, etc. There was some sorta local place that has such a long waiting list they're thinking of adding another hurdle, making customers buy into a whiskey tasting night to get a shot at a single bottle.

If you called the big Binny's here, they would put you on a giant waiting list with hundreds, and who knows if there was any tomfoolery beyond that. But leave the city and none of the Binny's I spoke to said they were running a waiting list at all, that it was strictly first come, first served. Probably because it's a huge operation, mark-ups were negligible, like maybe $10 on top of MSRP. After that, keep an eye on twitter or message boards. The person I know most in the loop, professionally, texted me a heads up only after I was already out the door, so few people really know the exact date and time in advance.

The way I put it to someone else recently was the better your relationship with the shop - special orders, relatively consistent face time - the more transparent the process gets, so that even though it remains first come, first served, and no holds, it does get a tiny bit easier. They see you making an effort without making an ass out of yourself, so they're perhaps more likely to help with your quest. Which, honestly, usually means just being, well, honest. They might give you a heads up that shipments are coming soon rather than, say, lie outright that the shipment of three bottles came and went weeks ago, to throw you off the trail (which happened to me somewhere!) Etc.. One reason I'm a known quantity at my local place, I think, is that just two years ago I owned literally not a single bottle of liquor, but I took a cocktail course and since then have been steadily building my (home) bar, one conspicuous bottle at a time, plus regular restocks of things we go through a lot, like whiskey and gin.

Which is a long way of saying that if you know the name of the manager, and they know your name, you're probably better off than most. But it's still a bit of a mystery to me: If the manager got a sense I was going to flip them would he have sold them to me? If the manager did not know me, would he have sold me what he sold me even had I been there when I was, right after they were delivered? Would he have happily sold them to someone else had they got there before me? I dunno.

wow. that's an interesting market snapshot. it's partic amazing because honestly, what i do when i want a bottle of whiskey is i go to binny's, look for something on sale that i remember the name of, maybe if i see that they are all > $30 i wuss out and just get some old overholt and call it a day. this wrangling is completely unfamiliar! and complicated! so interesting that there are so many eager customers that they have to keep adding hurdles.

And yet, here is a telling anecdote, so fresh the paint is still wet. We have friends coming over for dinner tonight, and I get a text asking what they can bring. They he adds that this morning he stopped into the Binny's right by his wife's work downtown and picked up a bottle of Old Rip 10 year and the Van Winkle rye. The latter in particular caught my attention, since it is among the most elusive of the entire Van Winkle line and this was, after all, the day after every bottle of everything was supposedly grabbed and gone in a blink. So I call said Binny's and ask:

Me: Do you have any more of the Van Winkle ryes? (assume I was really polite here, because I was)
Him: No, everything came and went yesterday. Not a bottle left.
Me: Really? Because I have a friend who bought a bottle of the 10 year and a bottle of the rye there an hour ago.
Him: Huh. Well, we sometimes set aside bottles for some of our more regular customers.
Me: That's strange, because my friend almost never shops at that store, so he's in no way a regular customer.
Him: Talk to our whiskey guy.

A few second go by

Whiskey guy: Whiskey guy here.
Me: Hi. I was wondering if you have any bottles of the Van Winkle rye left?
Whiskey guy: Sure do.
Me: Do you think if I popped in in 30 minutes I could buy it?
Whiskey guy: Absolutely. Just ask for me.

And now I have it.

So what's going on there? People have to be willing to make it through two people if they want to buy the stuff? What's the point in being so intimidating? Can you imagine people doing that with, I dunno, records?

It's not intimidating, it's just adding one extra step so that some chump looking to flip gives up easier, I think. The I-wear-sunglasses-inside douchebag in fitted name-brand leisurewear ahead of me was talking to the whiskey guy about Scotch. He admitted he knew absolutely nothing about, but that didn't stop him from buying a $300 bottle. Those are the people getting weeded out, the people buying it just to buy it.

Hipster record clerks are so much more intimidating. They're judging you. The guys working at a place like Binny's are just guys. The people who claim not to know anything generally really don't know anything, because they're not told, partly I imagine to cut down on shady stuff.

Stuff along these lines definitely happens with records too.

Wasn't I complaining about the "buy it just to buy it" crowd up thread?

And that's where the madness comes from: when the "buy it just to buy it" crowd collides with the "can't have it" demand. You wouldn't believe (or maybe you would) the number of top-ticket concerts I've been to where the guys whose casual after work wear is nicer than what I ever wear sitting in front of me spend most of their time talking and waiting in line for beer. Fans always get a reasonable shot at Springsteen, or the Stones, or Pearl Jam or whatever tickets, but the good seats? You've got to know someone or have deep pockets or both. Same with sporting events. Unlike whiskey, however, there's 15,000 shots to get a ticket per show or game. Stuff like the top tier Van Winkle line, we're talking maybe 25,000 bottles, total, globally, or something silly like that, and 80% go to bars and restaurants. In this case, it's the dudes with deep pockets who get hosed on the secondary market, because if one puts in the time to get a bottle at a normal price, you, too, can have some success. It just takes a bit of planning. (And god knows, I'm likely not planning to do it again next year.)

I may have mentioned it upthread, but that's why I think the Pappy thing is so crazy: it's counter intuitive, but it's a pretty accessible product, actually. The top price you'll pay is $250 for the 23, the 10 is less than $50. Compare that to a comparably elite scotch or cognac, some of which run well into the hundreds and definitely into the thousands at the high end. You can find them but you can't afford them. Pappy is hard to find, but it ultimately won't put you back that much in the end.

talisker 10yr must be the best of the entrylev single malts from diageo et al that you can get on regular discounts, smoky but not islay and most importantly bottled at 46 rather than 40 abv

im going to buy a few more bottles for the winter

local grocery has Jim Beam Black at $17/bottle right now, possibly going to stock up

A friend of mine tends bar at a place where Jim Beam and Jim Beam Black are magically the same price. It's not bad stuff.

jb black is alright

does $17 include sales tax

nah, but it's 6%

binny's has knob creek on sale for $24 please and thank you

I bought some the other week after this discussion about crazy hard-to-get bourbon! I saw it and was like yup.

I just learned that Blanton's sells a Europe and Japan-only barrel proof:

https://www.blantonsbourbon.com/straight_from_the_barrel

Who knew? Maybe I'll get my sister to grab me one when she visits.

Yeah that'll be the equivalent of $100 or thereabouts. Which isn't *so* bad when you consider the general price of bourbon over here. Available from the places where you can find the Van Winkles, as usual (though some are starting to hide the latter because they keep getting cleared out by American tourists, apparently) .

talisker 10yr must be the best of the entrylev single malts from diageo et al that you can get on regular discounts, smoky but not islay and most importantly bottled at 46 rather than 40 abv

smoky but not islay tell me more, cos smoky i could try but if it's got the chemical burn the laphroaig has then im out

By the way, speaking of Europe and bourbon, Jim Murray just through his weight behind bourbon over scotch, which is pretty remarkable:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/foodanddrink/foodanddrinknews/10502676/Scotch-malt-is-no-match-for-American-whiskey.html

For once, it's the American product that comes out ahead due to stricter standards and more careful craft!

I'm going to be driving through Kentucky at the end of the month and I'm considering making some time to visit the Buffalo Trace distillery.

I recommend Heaven Hill or maybe Four Roses, but particularly the former, for the good stuff you can get at the gift shop. Heaven Hill in particular is a great tour. If you do go Buffalo Trace (which has no product for sale, iirc), do the hardhat tour.

Excellent, thanks!

To put it into perspective, in terms of peating levels among Scotch whisky distilleries, the list looks something like this, with Ardbeg at the top of the pile:

-Longrow (55ppm)
-Ardbeg (55ppm)
-Laphroaig (40–43ppm)
-Lagavulin (35–40ppm)
-Ledaig (35ppm)
-Caol Ila (30–35ppm)
-Talisker (25–30ppm)
-Bowmore (20–25ppm)
-Highland Park (20ppm)

(phenol levels)

drinkin taketsuru pure malt

it's good I think

Oof xp

Lagavulin is a pretty peaty beverage. Good stuff Havent had the ones above it.

i just got this as a gift, pretty psyched 2 try

http://cdn2.bigcommerce.com/server5500/tpbc2s65/products/1431/images/1464/glenrothesselectreserve__57639__83898.1358534237.1280.1280.jpg

it's not just about peat as much as it's the flavor of the peat. i'm not a fan of laphroaig or kilchoman, but i like bowmore and ardbeg a lot. lagavulin too.

Tonight I saw a few Rye whiskeys I've never seen before, one called Lock Stock & Barrel, aged 13 Yrs at $149!!! Has anyone tried this? And they had Hochstadter's Rock and Rye, is this something you drink straight or is it a mixer, it's sweetened, right?

i have not tried it--if you're interested i believe whistlepig is basically the same stuff and it's considerably cheaper (tho not actually "cheap")

Thanks for the recommendation, I'll pick up a bottle of whistlepig for Christmas Eve.

drank some lagavulin last night. it was like a marsh in a tumbler. excellent stuff

I prefer the saltier islays - lagav, ardbeg uigeadail, caol ila - to the medicinals

ya that purity chat's all very interesting, jim, but scotch tastes better so

also had some japanese whisky and it was like bad medicine ffs. bear in mind these were baby steps. never gonna drink beer again though

Whistlepig, iirc, is one of the few imprints that says straight-up where its juice comes from (that Canadian distillery, right?). That puts them at odds with this endless wave of whiskey with neither an age statement nor sourcing information. Like, that stupid new $4000 Michter's bourbon? Who in the world would pay that much for something without knowing exactly how old it is or where it comes from? Except for, you know, someone who knows absolutely nothing about whiskey and wants to continue the streak of ignorance? Michter's is either being coy (at best) or dishonest when it even hints that the stuff came from Stizel-Weller. Even Jefferson played games with its 17/18 year, which put the S-W name on the bottles while still playing a little fast and loose. "Aged in Stitzel-Weller barrels." Does that mean it was aged *at* S-W, or just in barrels that came from S-W? Who knows? It's telling that Jefferson is staying mum on all its subsequent old released, the 21 year, the 26 year, the 30 ... no one knows where they came from or what they are doing. Just like stonehenge.

Anyway ... people love the Whistlepig Boss Hog Rye.

i know we've talked about this before but based on having read everything i possibly could about it i'm 90-95% sure the jefferson's 17/18 was stitzel weller all the way. i agree the way they are leveraging that fact for the older bottlings is a little shady.

whistlepig and lock/stock/barrel are both from alberta distillers ltd. lock, stock might have gotten the absolute best barrels of that stuff for all i know and it wouldn't be worth $130. regular whistlepig is nice enough but i just don't think 100% rye is a distillate that does anything for me.

As distillers wait for more stuff to mature to meet demand, this barrel-scraping (literally) trend will only continue. The old found-'em-in-a-warehouse- somewhere barrels, there's often a reason the distiller is willing to let them go to other bottlers. How good can the Jefferson 30 year possibly be? A lot of distillers put the bourbon sweet spot at 8-10 years, with 12 being the top for rye based stuff (right?). The Weller wheat recipe is what allows Van Winkle to do so well over the years, but just any ol random bourbon? Not worth the gamble. That Diageo Orphan Barrel Lost and Found collection is dubious to the max.

idk, george t. stagg is usually 17 years old or so and it tastes p. good to me.

Isn't Stagg really low in rye? That may help. But I don't really know. Obviously, taste buds don't lie!