American Politics Thread 2013: I'm a cool Rodham grandma in the USA

1884

it looks like it is over but there are still votes that have to happen in both Senate and House. It's very likely these will happen exactly as outlined, but I'm not calling it done until the votes go through. I wouldn't put it past the Republicans to enact some last minute shenanigans to blow it all up again.

Just now:

https://twitter.com/robertcostaNRO/status/390485943276158976

RT @sahilkapur Multiple Senate sources say Boehner has agreed to vote first on the Reid-McConnell deal. Game over.

reposting after the madness cos this is really good:

pretty sly and semi-convincing piece of radical writing here:

http://jacobinmag.com/2013/10/tea-party-yankees/

basically, "the tea party is correct in loving the constitution the way they do... and that's why the constitution is bad gree hee hee"

― goole, Tuesday, October 15, 2013 1:40 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

"Over" and then the Republican get to cause trouble again in January.

And despite what most see as a debacle for Republicans, a core group of conservatives insisted Tuesday that they are winning their battle to force concessions from Democrats on fiscal issues.

The president, they say, has been forced into a negotiation, even though he has said he will cede nothing in exchange for opening the government and raising the debt ceiling. The nation’s attention has been focused on problems with the health-care law. And, they say, making Boehner move to the right is itself a victory.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/failure-of-boehners-plan-shows/2013/10/15/0dcbfcc8-35bf-11e3-80c6-7e6dd8d22d8f_story_1.html

xp otm, i thought it was a good piece

did u read the jstor link to the article about how the founders were anti-democracy?

no, i didn't. i should check it out (if jstor works for me)

not "over" -- offseason.

NJ Democrats can comfort themselves today by voting for that POS Booker.

i'm vaguely aware of the 18th cent connotation of "democracy" as "mob rule" tho

xp

hey morbs yr boy might be running for governor - you excited?

no idea even what state yr talkin bout

new york, home of the yankees

david wright is running for governor?

http://i.usatoday.net/communitymanager/_photos/daily-pitch/2012/03/13/trump13x-large.jpg

The nation’s attention has been focused on problems with the health-care law

what nation is this about

u can register to jstor and get something like 3 free articles every 15 days

Might do that. That article linked above was pretty interesting

And despite what most see as a debacle for Republicans, a core group of conservatives insisted Tuesday that they are winning their battle to force concessions from Democrats on fiscal issues.

as foolishly as Dems usually handle victories, this is some through-the-looking-glass shit

Move On Everybody, It Just Doesn’t Matter
By Jonah Goldberg
October 16, 2013 10:11 AM
Comments110

The ugliness of the GOP schism will probably have a long half life, as various parties feel the need to point fingers and shout “I didn’t do it!” But if at all possible, I think conservatives and Republicans would be well-served by putting these disagreements behind us, like family fights at a Thanksgiving table that are best forgotten. If this were a very special episode of a 1980s TV show, we could resolve all of this with a simple break-dancing competition

So we're pretty much set for a deal...except for the possibility that Ted Cruz might hold it up? Everything I'm reading suggests the votes could proceed quickly unless Cruz decides to vote no, singlehandedlt delaying passage for a few more days.

I guess he's not planning on ruining everything because he hasn't been in the news pressing his case, but counting on Ted Cruz to do a reasonable thing isn't a very comforting thought.

I think that the house taking this up first means that Cruz would not have a opportunity to hold up the Senate vote, but I may be wrong.

Yeah, the idea as I hear it is that Boehner goes first, then in the Senate it's a sixty-vote deal rather than everybody. I also have a feeling McConnell would be happy smothering Cruz in case he tried anything.

done

Good ol' Erick Erickson:

We only need a few good small businessmen and women to stand up and challenge these Republicans who are caving. If they refuse to fight for us, we must fight them. It is the only way we will finally be able to fight against Obamacare.
I am tired of funding Republicans who campaign against Obamacare then refuse to fight. It’s time to find a new batch of Republicans to actually practice what the current crop preaches.

He must be a very disappointed man.

lol

Robert Costa ‏@robertcostaNRO 15m
just got handed the House GOP's internal talking pts for today, lots of clues

xp his name is Eric Erickson, he's sort of set up for disappointment.

More roffles due to the final paragraph:

Yet, we have incurred a bloodless revolution over the past century, culminating with the Obamacare court decision, which has empowered the federal government with the ability to tax or regulate all activity or inactivity. Most Americans will no longer have the ability to raise a family with dignity and freedom. We have allowed the federal government, and in some cases, state governments, to limit our liberty and property rights for years. Obamacare must be the Waterloo in the battle to preserve individual liberty. As individuals, it’s time to say NO.

...except Napoleon lost. (And from the phrasing all he's talking about is a series of defeats from a formerly 'good' place so presumably that's who he is identifying with.)

The president, they say, has been forced into a negotiation, even though he has said he will cede nothing in exchange for opening the government and raising the debt ceiling. The nation’s attention has been focused on problems with the health-care law. And, they say, making Boehner move to the right is itself a victory.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/failure-of-boehners-plan-shows/2013/10/15/0dcbfcc8-35bf-11e3-80c6-7e6dd8d22d8f_story_1.html

― curmudgeon, Wednesday, October 16, 2013 10:39 AM (59 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

the democrats having been begging to negotiate the budget for months, this is not a concession its business as usual, what a ridiculous piece of trash argument

We must also never give up the fight against Obamacare. This is not the farm bill or flood insurance. This will permanently crush the dignity and self-sufficiency of the middle class, destroy the entire healthcare system, and degrade the broader job market in every other field. This cannot stand. We must continue to fight the law at every turn and use every leverage point possible.

Most Americans will no longer have the ability to raise a family with dignity and freedom.

I literally can't conceive of the level of deep mental illness it takes to truly believe this.

I am tired of funding Republicans who campaign against Obamacare then refuse to fight.

...defund republicans!

folks i think its clear we all know its time for a third party, a true party of tea party patriots, party

I literally can't conceive of the level of deep mental illness it takes to truly believe this.

― My question is primarily riparian (Phil D.),

I want to raise a cancer-ridden child denied insurance with dignity and freedom. Don't you?

Erickson was a CNN contributor for a little while too

CNN's idea of balance

Most Americans will no longer have the ability to raise a family with dignity and freedom.

I literally can't conceive of the level of deep mental illness it takes to truly believe this.

Are there actually people with a clear understanding of the details behind ACA that believe this in good faith? My guess is most people either don't understand the law and how it works or are blatantly lying about it, but I'd be interested to see some indication to the contrary.

theyre just full of frustration and hatered

i think the "slippery slope" idea is pretty key to conservative thinking. "holding the line" in all respects (or pushing it back) is what forestalls government tyranny, libertinism, etc.

at least that's my guess at what motivates their apocalyptic rhetoric.

They are also named "Eric son of Eric."

Maybe I'm putting too much weight into a simplistic reading of the TP phenom, but I think Most Americans will no longer have the ability to raise a family with dignity and freedom makes perfect sense if you read it like "White straight 'masculine' men like 'us' and like you have been conditioned to aspire to be will no longer have the ability to feel confidently superior to all other varieties of people, and will be under increasing pressure from society to change their way of thinking or be found undesirable/irrelevant."

In which case their actions are almost reasonable.

eric son of eric son of eric son of...

xp See, as a straight white male, I just think, "Eh, we had a pretty good run, we had this place locked down for a good 300 years."

I don't have the history chops to propose a concrete number but I think it's significantly longer than that?

I assume Phil's just referring to America there

the decline of straight white male dominance as a fundamental of conservative enmity cannot be overstated, but i feel like the huge increase in general inequality in the country over the last ~40 years is playing a big part in fueling the whole thing, traditional stright whites are feeling its effects and blaming that on their threatened place in the american hierarchy, i suspect that if we didnt have this inequality problem and the rising tide really was lifting all boats white mans would be having an easier time adjusting to new realities, which is not to say some of us wouldnt be mad but just that maybe not as many would be as mad

^^^ yeah, this. Plus, ginning up outrage is a GOP strong suit, and hyperbole like "no longer have the ability to raise a family with dignity and freedom" being repeated by the GOP noise machine is a big part of that.

can we take odds on whether Boehner is gonna burst into tears on camera at some point in the next 24 hrs

straight white males dominate gay chatrooms though :(