American Politics Thread 2013: I'm a cool Rodham grandma in the USA

imna break this down for you: there is no way to get republicans to vote for tax increases, they will not do it at all

not even if you ask for only a little bit of taxes in exchange for their wildest dreams of screwing over the poor and infirm, they will not do it

be curious to see if the gop manages to shoot themselves in the foot again by running insane people

They can only get crazier. Christine O'Donnell's going to look middle-of-the-road before 2014's over.

Boehner described the senate bill as handing the House GOP a "hand grenade," per GOP member

So who's going to jump on it and save the whole platoon?

not even if you ask for only a little bit of taxes in exchange for their wildest dreams of screwing over the poor and infirm, they will not do it

― lag∞n, Tuesday, October

So you agree with "silly" Pierce that we are stuck in a situation where the only future budget negotiations will be regarding sequester cuts or entitlement cuts

seriously: what does it matter who's president, then? Aside from the date the revolt starts.

some revolution it'll be when the president sets the date huh

So you agree with "silly" Pierce that we are stuck in a situation where the only future budget negotiations will be regarding sequester cuts or entitlement cuts

― curmudgeon, Tuesday, October 15, 2013 11:22 AM (26 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

hes silly cause he implied that it was obamas decision to take tax hikes off the table, the argument which you carried on, but as to the future who knows what it holds, the next ~3 years youre not getting any tax cuts

david mcadams otm

Constantly wielding the threat of a debt default has, ironically, undermined fiscal conservatives’ ability to extract meaningful concessions on the debt, as it has hardened Democrats’ resolve not to give in to such threats. The best way forward for those who care about controlling our nation’s debt isn’t to make more threats, but to give up the ability to conduct last-minute brinkmanship, in exchange for tying the next debt ceiling to a fixed target for debt reduction.

not getting any tax cuts

― lag∞n, Tuesday, October 15, 2013 11:51 AM (5 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

tax raises lol

and fwiw w/o tax increases entitlement reform is off the table too so at least we have that

black guy is president. gay people can marry. immigrants can lead dignified lives. white people will be a minority soon. i don't think there are really any bargains that will satisfy the Republican base outside of "fuck 'em and this goddamned country, too."

yeah the only way forward at this point seems to be to marginalize the republican party to the point where they have to make a change, or just wait for them to die or something

I can visualize Obama and Senate Dems like Schumer caving to entitlement reform based on some revenue-neutral tax reform gesture that falls short of being a tax increase.

But as a negotiating strategy and as an alternative to entitlement cuts Obama should push for "fairness" in the entire tax code(capital gains, Social Security payroll cap, income, business taxes, getting rid of loopholes, tax reform) that brings in revenue even if Republicans say it is off the table.

Is the fixed target in that NY Times editorial example gonna be at sequester levels and how will you meet it (will it be from entitlement cuts or elsewhere).

democrats had congress and the presidency for a lil while not that long ago so who knows what happens next presidential cycle, obvs something would have to be done about the filibuster tho

I can visualize Obama and Senate Dems like Schumer caving to entitlement reform based on some revenue-neutral tax reform gesture that falls short of being a tax increase.

― curmudgeon, Tuesday, October 15, 2013 12:03 PM (21 seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

i could see them caving for revenue positive tax reform that doesnt technically comprise 'raising taxes', the revenue neutral proposal has already been unceremoniously rejected by all the usual suspects thank god

but again i dont think republicans will go for any revenue positive thing

E.J. Dionne Jr dreams.: "Obama can't slip back into the style of deficit wrangling that so weakened him in 2011. He now has an opening to refocus on his priorities: universal pre-kindergarten education, immigration reform, rebuilding our transportation and communications systems -- and, one would like to hope, an even broader agenda for speeding growth and sharing its dividends fairly."

...and free unicorns!

amazing how the republicans can lie us into iraq but the democrats have problems enacting romneycare

have we talked about this rather interesting development

Eejay Dionne and David Brooks make for a most loathsome twosome on NPR on Fridays.

Mike Lee (GOP Sen from Utah) apparently also getting a primary challenge from the "center"

Lee’s favorable rating has dropped 10 percentage points since a June Brigham Young University poll, which doesn’t skew liberal. More than half of Utah voters see him unfavorably; 57 percent said he should be more willing to compromise. In a separate survey, a majority of Utah voters now disapprove of the Tea Party’s influence.

Like Amash, Lee will be challenged from his left. Josh Romney and Dan Liljenquist are waiting in the wings. If Lee survives that primary contest, there’s an excellent chance that Democratic Representative Jim Matheson -- who’s been gerrymandered into unwinnable districts twice but still wins -- could win a statewide race in the reddest state in the country.

amazing how the republicans can lie us into iraq but the democrats have problems enacting romneycare

― reggie (qualmsley), Tuesday, October 15, 2013 12:41 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

i would just like to make a point re the meme that obama/romneycare was a republican idea - its literally true but its not really true, the concept thought up by a republican think tank just so that republicans would have an idea to propose when arguing against democrat socialized healthcare to make them seem like reasonable people who really wanted to insure everyone

as a whole they had no intention of actually passing it, a few stray moderate members aside, in reality they were always opposed to any government program that gave more people access to healthcare

romney didnt understand that cause he was never part of the conservative movement really, he was just just a weird mormon businessman stuck up in taxachusetts, a relic, he actually thought passing romneycare would help his national chances, lmao what a rube

that is interesting! xps: the amash thing. he's probably the most interesting of the tp/libertarian types running around now. apparently explains every single vote he takes on his fb page.

Justin Amash
October 9
[Vote from July 24, 2013]

I voted no on H R 2397, Department of Defense Appropriations Act for Fiscal Year 2014. The bill spends $28 billion more than the current post-sequester level for FY 2013 and violates the spending caps in the Budget Control Act (the 2011 debt ceiling deal) for FY 2014 by nearly $45 billion. It funds wasteful projects, reinforces the unconstitutional indefinite detention policies that threaten Americans on U.S. soil, and continues to allow the unconstitutional bulk, suspicionless collection of Americans' telephone records.

Contrary to popular assertions, military spending has been higher under Pres. Obama than under Pres. Bush. To be credible on deficit reduction, Congress must begin making reforms to military spending, which is the federal government's second largest expenditure and nearly equal to the military spending of the rest of the world combined. When Congress passes bills like this one, no one should take Congress's commitment to reining in deficits—or protecting individual rights—seriously.

It passed 315-109.

i have a pet theory that high military spending is a major contributor to a lot of our problems, because it consists of government spending that most people dont see any tangible result for, which leads to the reasonable conclusion that taxes are bullshit that dont do anyone any good and the government is super wasteful

I wish I could put Jim Matheson and Jon Huntsman into a "sit or start" calculator, just like I do with my fantasy wide receivers.

but god forbid anyone actually vote "against the veterans" when most of the money is going to a black ops bomber that never gets produced

id like to thank the brave people in my feed who RT the wingnut memes of the day, i dont have the stomach to actually follow this stuff but its educational to get some idea of what theyre currently up to

Love Of Freedom ‏@Love0fFreedom 24 Mar 12
If #obama Legalizes 50 Million Muslims We Are Dead! They Will Kill Us! They Despise Us Just As He Does! #DeportMuslims
Retweeted by Ann Boobus

it's like a junior high cafeteria over in john birch society land

apparently explains every single vote he takes on his fb page.

This is astounding, I had no idea.

There's no limit to the crazy in Kent Cty, MI, I'm sorry to say. That's a deep, deep well.

no to shill for the guy but it is fascinating reading

https://www.facebook.com/repjustinamash

lol @ "glenn greenwood"

pparently explains every single vote he takes on his fb page.

This is astounding, I had no idea.

― Tottenham Heelspur (in orbit), Tuesday, October 15, 2013 1:29 PM (10 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

yeah thats cool as hell

Sharon Burkett Johnson Voting you out next opportunity, what are you doing to get the government back to work?

someone should post on his wall to keep up the good fight, we'll be greeted as liberators once we default

I doubt default's gonna happen - I'm sure that what's happening right now is just Boehner counting votes to see if he will retain the speakership after putting the Senate bill (or some version of it) to a floor vote without GOP majority support

ive thought all along that there was only a slim possibility of default, but its still extremely dangerous as the results of default are so dire, and if we keep playing this game of chicken over and over eventually that slim possibility will get its day

tear the band-aid off IMO and get it over with now; that way either we will tank the world now and can actually start rebuilding something better/more sustainable or we'll find out that we are an impervious megalith that the world will never hold accountable and we can then start King Konging smaller nations with impunity

ha no plz

this is actually solvable

i have a pet theory that high military spending is a major contributor to a lot of our problems, because it consists of government spending that most people dont see any tangible result for,

It's not even that there is no tangible result, it's that it's effectively throwing your money away. Missiles, bombs, etc. are physical products that cost a lot of money (relative to US median household income) and are BLOWN UP. Literally destroyed.

You could talk about gains in 'protecting our interests abroad' and making the world safer for a free market, but surely all of that is negated by blowback and maintained by a black market that stays strong and current as long as we insist on producing newer and newer weapons.

Apparently, just nudging up against default last time ended up with the US paying an additional $1.3B in higher interest on outstanding loans.

Over a billion dollars, down the toilet.

I think we should leave future generations an interesting challenge to overcome, it will build character

remember a couple years ago when it became OBVIOUS there was a consensus to decrease the Pentagon budget under Obama? I lol'd then.

hey as long as the capital gains tax rate stays low it's all good

It's not even that there is no tangible result, it's that it's effectively throwing your money away. Missiles, bombs, etc. are physical products that cost a lot of money (relative to US median household income) and are BLOWN UP. Literally destroyed.

You could talk about gains in 'protecting our interests abroad' and making the world safer for a free market, but surely all of that is negated by blowback and maintained by a black market that stays strong and current as long as we insist on producing newer and newer weapons.

― Emperor Cos Dashit (Adam Bruneau), Tuesday, October 15, 2013 1:56 PM (9 seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

yeah i mean a military is def an extremely valuable and worthwhile thing to have from an economic standpoint, ours is just ten times more expensive than necessary and theres really no return on investment after a while, its prob as you said even counterproductive at some point as we tend to use it to kill poor brown people on the other side of the world just cause we might as well drop all those bombs

remember a couple years ago when it became OBVIOUS there was a consensus to decrease the Pentagon budget under Obama? I lol'd then.

― eclectic husbandry (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, October 15, 2013 1:59 PM (49 seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

fwiw it has been cut some

obvs a drop in the bucket but still

a *real* cut? First I've heard of this.