American Politics Thread 2013: I'm a cool Rodham grandma in the USA

goole OTM

"you keep changing the rules!" = the world keeps changing to demand basic human rights for more and more groups of ppl whose needing to have rights is inconvenient for us

lots of people don't even bother to agree with that stuff publicly; hell, they're bending over backwards to pretend that racism/sexism doesn't even exist, all with a straight face

well it wouldn't be a gay face

touche

Is there anything more collectivist than sharing risk via insurance?

ha, but i think it's cool as long as it's not coerced. it might just be a smart exercise of your personal power to contract. now, if you're forced into the risk pool and paying premiums, it's ultra-tyranny.

if theocracy ever came about in the USA, you'd see it rapidly devolve into sectarian head-banging over the theological details.

http://skylightpress.files.wordpress.com/2013/05/life-of-brian.jpg

“This is the most closed, control freak administration I’ve ever covered,” said David E. Sanger, veteran chief Washington correspondent of The New York Times.

@ZekeJMiller: Reid on talks before shutdown ends: “not gonna happen”

hey our friend nate silver is back http://www.grantland.com/fivethirtyeight/story/_/id/9802433/nate-silver-us-government-shutdown

BREAKING NEWS 6:11 PM ET Obama Rejects Republican Proposal for Short-Term Debt Limit Plan

awesome!

Cantor and Ryan are saying things like "he didn't say yes or no, we'll talk more later" but that kinda says enough.

lol he didnt say yes or no he just said come back with something i can agree to

he didnt say yes or no, he just silently walked out of the room and turned the lights off on us

Krauthammer just said Obama pulled a "bait and switch" and the GOP should "hold him to it." Below him onscreen the graphics showing the Dow surging 300 points.

I like how GOP negotiating involves never giving up anything. genius!

"Judge" Napolitano, stolid beneath red-frosted tips, barked that HARRY REID dammit is being more of a moral leader than rigid Obama.

Krauthammer farted

lol reid beat obama to rejecting the gop plan by like half a day

Greg Sargent ‏@ThePlumLineGS 1m
NBC/WSJ poll: Obama's political standing stable; Congressional GOP approval now at 24%: http://firstread.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/10/10/20903624-nbcwsj-poll-shutdown-debate-damages-gop

The President had a good meeting with members of the House Republican Leadership this evening; the meeting lasted approximately an hour and a half. The President, along with the Vice President, Treasury Secretary Lew, Denis McDonough and Rob Nabors listened to the Republicans present their proposal. After a discussion about potential paths forward, no specific determination was made. The President looks forward to making continued progress with members on both sides of the aisle. The President’s goal remains to ensure we pay the bills we’ve incurred, reopen the government and get back to the business of growing the economy, creating jobs and strengthening the middle class.

lol

Drew Cline ‏@DrewHampshire 5m
Best WSJ poll Q: If you could vote out every member of Congress in next election, including your own rep, would you? 60% yes, 35% no.

Waffle, but I like how it boils down to "That's nice, try again."

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/house-goper-defunding-obamacare-is-off-the-table

"They don't want this law to go into effect at all, but that's obviously not going to happen at this point."

it was obviously not gonna happen several months ago you fucking jackass

Just another last minute swith n bait, thanks obama!

Christopher Hayes ‏@chrislhayes 2m
Reminded of @schaller67 's very prescient thesis about how bad it is for a national party to rule from the House. (see 1980s D's)

dont know what hes talking about but i am intrigued

the other Chris, the fan of Tip 'n' Ronnie, can explain

chrislmayes

I mean, the Dems got rolled in the early Reagan administration because Reagan picked off the Boll Weevils, but he lost control after the '82 election. Even then O'Neill lent Reagan support for Grenada, Lebanon, gave Claude Pepper plenty of room to negotiate SS reform, let Rostenkowski negotiate "tax reform." Dunno what he means.

i followed the guy on twitter so many someday he will tell me

not sure either but i do recall reading something a few years ago comparing the gop now to the dems in the 80s, specifically thru the prism of house control and how it reflected the parties didn't have national appeal but had enough little gerrymandered fiefdoms and that these fiefdoms were numerous and powerful enough to control the house but at the same time reflected the very reason they weren't a national party. there are huge differences - the 80s dems were a national party and weren't nearly as unified in practice or ideology and tip would bring things to a vote that didn't pass a democratic litmus test. the notion that the suicide caucus is some small pocket of the party and nonrepresentative of the gop seems to be a myth that might come out of this, the way the gop has attempted to paint dubya post-08 (or maybe 06, but 08's where they really cut the ties) or gingrich circa 2000 as not really representative of the gop, they've changed or actually they were never that now deeply unpopular thing in the first place; maybe a small faction of the party got the wheel moving or conceived this as a foolproof plan but the overwhelming majority of the house gop is on that same page ideologically and is enabling it today. paul broun was a nobody back bencher, bachmann's a lame duck, cruz is a disliked freshman, these morons didn't take over the asylum w/o the rest of the party giving them the keys and showing them how the phones worked.

Rundown of meeting and where people stand:

http://politi.co/GNwEzB

Rick Perlstein:

Twenty-five years. Given that sedulous long-termism, conservatives are also, it is crucial to understand, inveterate goalpost-movers—fundamentally so. Whenever an exasperated liberal points out that the basic architecture of the Affordable Care Act matches a plan drawn up by the Heritage Foundation in the 1990s, I feel a stab of exasperation myself—with my side. Theirs is not a clinching argument, or even a good argument. It means nothing to point out to conservatives that Heritage once proposed something like Obamacare. The Heritage plan was a tactic of a moment—a moment that required something to fill in the space to the right of President Clinton’s healthcare plan, an increment toward the real strategic goal of getting the government out of the healthcare business altogether… someday.

I am never more exasperated than when Barack Obama makes such arguments. He loves them! This week it was his observation, “The bill that is being presented to end the government shutdown reflects Republican priorities.” So why can’t they see reason?

Never mind the damage such pronouncements do to the president’s status as a negotiator, a point we’ve all discussed to death, though I’ll reiterate it anyway: even when Obamaism wins on its own terms, it loses, ratifying Republican negotiating positions as common sense. As that same conservative theorist William Rusher also put it, the greatest power in politics is “the power to define reality.” As I wrote last year, “Obama never attempts that. Instead, he ratifies his opponent’s reality, by folding it into his original negotiating position. And since the opponent’s preferred position is always further out than his own, even a ‘successful’ compromise ends up with the reality looking more like the one the Republicans prefer. A compromise serves to legitimize.”

Right after Watergate, GOP polling at 18 percent, Perlstein reminds us.

yeah these fuckers can always bounce back

I thought the Heritage Foundation came up with what became Obamacare during the Reagan administration ... not sure where Clinton's coming into this

http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2013/10/10/nsa_veterans_the_white_house_is_hanging_us_out_to_dry

'There has been no support for the agency from the President, and this has not gone unnoticed.'

boo-fucking-hoo

is it the case that these latest poll numbers (nbc/wsj) are going to force the GOP to surrender (including the house)? or am i just watching too much msnbc

btw as far as cable news pundits go, joy reid @ msnbc is #1 the best imo

I'm still a Chris Hayes stan; the other MSNBC people are all rah-rah Obama

<3 hayes and melissa harris-perry

o'donnell just had on the reporter costa (nat'l review) who said iirc the (house) GOP was in fact concerned about the debt ceiling, they'll raise it, but many members not worried about the shutdown..

Costa's been invaluable the last week, admittedly.

i like hayes and maddow but i almost never watch it. watch olbermann more tbh lol.

I'm still a Chris Hayes stan; the other MSNBC people are all rah-rah Obama

― the objections to Drake from non-REAL HIPHOP people (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, October 11, 2013 2:24 AM (29 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Except the morning joe shitfest of course

http://ridefortheconstitution.org

Lololol

Such a powerful movement that not even their domain name can be controlled.

That's the dumb fake trucker thing fyi

femalestudentfortheconstitution.jpg

I thought the Heritage Foundation came up with what became Obamacare during the Reagan administration ... not sure where Clinton's coming into this

They were pushing the individual mandate in papers back in 1989, but they didn't propose the Heritage Consumer Choice Health Plan until 1992, when the Presidential campaign was making Health Care reform seem inevitable.

watch olbermann more tbh lol.

― balls, Friday, October 11, 2013 2:49 AM (

He's just doing baseball post-game stuff now isn't he? And his baseball patter is annoying I think.