American Politics Thread 2013: I'm a cool Rodham grandma in the USA

if you guys really believed americans are fucking idiots, there wd be no politics threads.

you believe it and you're always here

wow doesnt really shed too much light on our current political situation, almost a sort of idiotic opinon

xp

A sweeping national effort to extend health coverage to millions of Americans will leave out two-thirds of the poor blacks and single mothers and more than half of the low-wage workers who do not have insurance, the very kinds of people that the program was intended to help, according to an analysis of census data by The New York Times.

Because they live in states largely controlled by Republicans that have declined to participate in a vast expansion of Medicaid, the medical insurance program for the poor, they are among the eight million Americans who are impoverished, uninsured and ineligible for help. The federal government will pay for the expansion through 2016 and no less than 90 percent of costs in later years.

predict all those states will get on board in a couple years once this shits not dominating the news, its free money from the feds and theres tremendous pressure from all sorts of corporate and social interests to accept it

http://i.imgur.com/Svs3g6R.png

lol

yep, once the efficacy of fucking over your own state's most vulnerable people for short-term political gain is maxed out, they'll quietly expand medicaid. whadda country

the constitution was a bad idea http://www.slate.com/articles/business/moneybox/2013/10/juan_linz_dies_yale_political_scientist_explains_why_government_by_crisis.html

haha, mcconnell and rand paul had a nice private conversation with the camera and the mic on:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/03/rand-paul-mitch-mcconnell-hot-mic_n_4036591.html

"I just did CNN and I just go over and over again 'We're willing to compromise. We're willing to negotiate.' I think... I don't think they poll tested we won't negotiate. I think it's awful for [Democrats] to say that over and over again," Paul said.
"Yeah, I do too and I, and I just came back from that two hour meeting with them and that, and that was basically the same view privately as it was publicly," McConnell agreed.

Paul added, "I think if we keep saying, 'We wanted to defund it. We fought for that and that we're willing to compromise on this', I think they can't, we're gonna, I think... well, I know we don't want to be here, but we're gonna win this, I think."

oops. what's funny is just before that, mcconnell looks down at his mic and says "i'm all wired up"

sociopaths http://gawker.com/gop-congressman-makes-park-ranger-apologize-for-shutdow-1440577868

its like no-one's ever watched the west wing xp

that gawker story is balls out infuriating

like a bully saying 'stop hitting yourself stop hitting yourself'

xpost

it is true, though, that "we won't negotiate" is not the best talking point for democrats. it's true that the full version (something like "we won't negotiate because the funding of the united states government should not be treated as a poker chip in a negotiation" is reasonable, but they should know that everything in media immediately gets whittled down to the most idiotic soundbyte, and "we won't negotiate" doesn't fly with people who haven't been paying attention (i.e., nearly everyone)

polling is strongly w the democrats fwiw

maybe the republicans have a better line but theyre starting from way behind

not to mention that the current dynamic just reinforces what everyone already thought about the republicans which is that theyre obstructionist

i dont think they can win this one, particularly w the debt limit approaching and big business no doubt preparing to lose their shit over it, and rightfully so

and fwiw the democrats line isnt we wont negotiate its theyre taking the country hostage

yeah, definitely, but i'd never put it past obama/democrats to take a sure thing, completely blow it with idiotic messaging, and then end up compromising even more than they already have (remembering that they seemingly completely forgot about the sequestration levels of funding and let it become the new status quo, and now we're all forced to eat that dogshit for another few months, probably longer). no matter how far ahead they are at the outset, walking around with a "we won't negotiate" soundbyte (even if it's unfairly characterized as that, that's what it ends up sounding like) is pretty odd when the doofus majority of america is like "why won't these bozos in congress just meet in a room and have a beer and negotiate like gentlemen"

we don't negotiate with terrorists is a good soundbyte though

also i think you're overestimating the strength of the polling in favor of the democrats. don't get me wrong, it favors democrats for sure:

the poll asks "Who do you blame more for the government shutdown?":

Republicans - 44%
Democrats/Obama - 35%
Both - 17%

That means that 52% of Americans attribute at least some blame to Democrats, vs 61% to Republicans. that's a significant gap, but not insurmountable

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-250_162-57605822/poll-americans-not-happy-about-shutdown-more-blame-gop/

it seems like the admin really learned its lesson from 2011 re negotiating abt this stuff, the thing that worries me is the possibility of some larger grand bargain where they give away stuff that they clearly want to give away, like social security cuts

if you can say something for republican intransigence its that its prevented obama from going forward w some of his more wrongheaded centrist bs

duuude come on

Fully 72 percent of Americans disapprove of shutting down the federal government over differences on the Affordable Care Act; just 25 percent approve of this action. Republicans are divided: 48 percent approve, while 49 percent disapprove.

this is as low as you can go Democrats/Obama - 35%

the republicans could start murdering democrats on the house floor and theyre not going below 30%

and the 44% that (accurately) blame republicans only, well, they weren't likely voting for republicans in the first place, so what does it matter? The 35% that somehow, unbelievably, blame democrats/obama MORE than the republicans, they're certainly not voting for democrats. they are the least informed people in the entire world, there is no hope for them. so you're left with 17% that blame both parties, that are also ignorant/apathetic. a few of them will accidentally learn some facts about the shutdown/debt ceiling shitshow if a good article about it manages to slip into their lifestream on facebook and persuasive tidbits are located in the 1st or 2nd sentence of the excerpt box, but most will just keep doing whatever the fuck that they do.

you are trying to talk yrself into this

Fully 72 percent of Americans disapprove of shutting down the federal government over differences on the Affordable Care Act; just 25 percent approve of this action. Republicans are divided: 48 percent approve, while 49 percent disapprove.

i get that, most americans don't approve of the shutdown, but that only matters if the public is informed about who actually caused the shutdown! other polling (the Who do you Blame More? question i was reference above) shows that a slim minority sort of knows what's going on, and a plurality is just flat out wrong.

12% is not a slim majority and the underlying polling also favors the democrats

literally the lowest possible number of people when asked to blame someone blamed democrats, and some people went uh idk

anyhoo i agree that obv the democrats have the upper hand in this (although i think they'll end up negotiating somehow and give away something that pisses liberals off - BOLD PREDICTION).

i'm not sure that polling matters, anyway, when it comes to the near-term decisionmaking and grandstanding by the GOP on this. it might matter in the midterms in the districts that aren't already hopelessly gerrymandered, but politicians of all stripes don't seem to pay much attention to what the public says they want in polls when it comes to actually making decisions while in office.

when wall street gets involved the week before the debt ceiling, they'll start paying attention

also keep in mind that i'm really grumpy because i haven't been able to go work and even my own parents support the shut down

if the dems negotiate itll be for some bigger grand bargain *puke* is my feeling, at the very least i hope they get a permanent end to the debt limit, which is actually meaningful as far as the ongoing functioning of the country

tho i do think politicians pay attention to polling in very public high leverage situations like this, for things that arent all over the media obvs it doesnt really matter since no ones paying attention

"Meanwhile, a whopping 72% disapprove of holding the entire budget hostage over Obamacare, including nearly 50% of all Republicans surveyed."

you shd take yr time off and do something fun, visit a monument or something lol

http://www.bbc.co.uk/leicester/content/images/2006/10/19/dmu_head_in_hands_315x420.jpg

fwiw boehners been saying theres no way hell allow default http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/04/us/politics/debt-limit-impasse.html

Obama and Reid need to not only imply they won't negotiate with terrorists but underline that the responsible, conservative way to oppose bills you don't like is to have the wherewithal to overturn them, not by taking the budget hostage. That means that the Republicans have to win the Senate or the Presidency or both and they're doing everything they can to make that not happen. The Congresspersons in the deep red gerrymandered districts either agree with the nuttery emanating out of the right-wing bloviatosphere or they lack the courage to speak the truth to their constituents; neither does much service to the health of a democratic republic.

yeah the fundamental problem is we have a nonsensical system of government, checks and balances

the responsible, conservative way to oppose bills you don't like is to have the wherewithal to overturn them, not by taking the budget hostage.

occurred to me this morning: the dem house finally ended the war in vietnam by 'power of the purse', no? i'd have to dig into that tho.

yeah the fundamental problem is we have a nonsensical system of government, checks and balances

― lag∞n, Thursday, October 3, 2013 11:52 AM (34 seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

i am a known hater of bicamerialism etc but i don't think this goes very far. any system will break if you're trying to break it.

they have a built in incentive to break it is the thing

will be interesting if Boehner actually falls on his sword to save the republic from default. kinda hoping he does, he's been a terrible Speaker.

he prob wont have to fall on his sword, most republicans are opposed to this current strategy but are just to chicken to say anything

you don't think he'll lose the speakership over this?

others know better than me but i think boehner's speakership is perfectly safe no matter what he does -- i know the ultras he's dealing with have zero long-term thinking but even they know if they bump him off one of them has to lead, and i don't think anybody wants his job. his enemies would rather have him around to complain about.

prob not xp

cuz I assume that's the real calculus Boehner is working out right now

xp