Shall we anticipate the FIFTH SEASON of the AMC series "Breaking Bad"? I think I may.

Yeah I don't really care about Jesse getting 'closure' whatever that means, I just would have liked him to have had more screen time.

I guess we're all just going to have tune in this week and see what happens in the aftermath.

did Heisenberg have a will? y/n

Yeah I don't really care about Jesse getting 'closure' whatever that means, I just would have liked him to have had more screen time.

― Matt DC, Tuesday, October 1, 2013 10:30 AM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

yeah I mean I didn't need Ghost Jane and Ghost Andrea waving and smiling Return of the Jedi style at Jesse. but agree a few more minutes of screen time would have been nice.

I have to imagine the next time a woman tells Jesse "I think maybe we should settle down" that he runs around the room screaming and smashing shit in panic.

ghost andrea: jeeesseeee killl brock so we can be together in heaaaaaven

I should stress that I liked this episode fine. I guess just slot me in with the folks who were hoping for something darker (keeping in the mind the show was innately dark). And I've been complaining about the deus ex Nazi all along - no one likes Nazis - but were we supposed to forget that Lydia (who surely is not a worse person than Walt?) has a child of her own? Were we supposed to feel good about Walt tormenting his former partners, who as far as we know have never done anything wrong to Walt, and in fact appear to be rather generous? Dunno. Those beats all felt a little phony to me

Heisenberg had nothing left at the end, man

Jack trying to bargain with the rest of the money and getting shot was nice. Was that also the first time that Walt did his own dirty work? I don't think he ever fired a gun until then.

He shot one of Gus' guys and told Jesse to run.

Shot Mike.

xxpost Walt fired a gun many times. He killed the one survivor at the end of the "Run" episode with a headshot, also shot two dudes in the Season 4 finale, and shot Ehrmentraut.

From Vince Gilligan himself:

"“We didn’t feel an absolute need for Walt to expire at the end of the show. Our gut told us it was right. As the writers and I worked through all these different possibilities, it felt right, but I don’t think it was a necessity for us. There was a version we kicked around where Walt is the only one who survives, and he’s standing among the wreckage and his whole family is destroyed. That would be a very powerful ending but very much a kick-in-the-teeth kind of ending for the viewers. We talked about a version where Jesse kills Walt. We talked about a version where Walt more or less gets away with it. There’s no right or wrong way to do this job — it’s just a matter of: You get as many smart people around you as possible in the writers room, and I was very lucky to have that. And when our gut told us we had it, we wrote it, and I guess our gut told us that it would feel satisfying for Walt to at least begin to make amends for his life and for all the sadness and misery wrought upon his family and his friends. Walt is never going to redeem himself. He’s just too far down the road to damnation. But at least he takes a few steps along that path."

― Neanderthal, 1. oktober 2013 16:23 (6 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

More from Gilligan: " Of course, Walt for years now has been looking through the wrong end of the telescope. … For years now, he thought if he makes his family financially sound — that’s really all he has to do as a man, as a provider, and as a father. They’re going to walk away with just shy of 10 million in cash, because of Walt’s machinations with Gretchen (Jessica Hecht) and Elliott (Adam Godley). But on the other hand, the family emotionally is scarred forever. So it's a real mixed message at the end."

― Neanderthal, 1. oktober 2013 16:26 (3 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

And then the part you left out: "Walt has failed on so many levels, but he has managed to do the one thing he set out to do, which is a victory. He has managed to make his family financially sound in his absence, and that was really the only thing he set out to do in that first episode. So, mission accomplished.”

Wtf, dude, removing that part from what you post is just disingenous.

Also, later on in the interview he states: But the most important sequence in the episode for me probably was Walt succeeding at his 62-episode long task, which is leaving money to his family. The sequence with Gretchen and Elliott at their house was the hardest thing of all for the writers and I to figure out. In the previous episode, Saul Goodman (Bob Odenkirk) lays it out for Walt. He gives Walt all the reasons why it’s impossible to leave millions and millions of dollars to his family. He says, ‘You’ll never get it past the cops, and if somehow you manage to get to your family, the cops will find out about it and they’ll seize it because it’s drug money. And if miracle of miracles, you manage to get it past the cops, your family is not going to take it because it’s from you and they hate you. Especially your son, who is primarily the one you’re doing this for, so it’s an impossibility.’ We kept talking about that in the writers room saying, ‘Jesus, Saul’s right on the money, no pun intended. There’s no way for Walt to do this.’ The Gretchen and Elliott scheme is structurally the most important sequence in the episode, when Walt pulls that scam on Gretchen and Elliott and he intimidates them into giving his family money so that it’ll ride past the DEA without the DEA knowing it’s drug money and then it’ll be accepted by Skyler and Walt Jr. as largesse, as charity and not as money from their patriarch. As soon as we figured that out, we were like, ‘Oh my god, let’s go to lunch!’ [Laughs] That’s probably structurally the most important moment of the episode, and the toughest one to crack.”

xpost But other than that ... first time!

Anyone get a real "Blue Velvet"/Lynch vibe from the Nazi clubhouse?

Were we supposed to feel good about Walt tormenting his former partners, who as far as we know have never done anything wrong to Walt, and in fact appear to be rather generous?

Whether we were or weren't, I didn't. I never viewed the Schwartzes as bad people - that whole "fuck you" conversation with Gretchen sealed what an asshole Walt was.

They spent a lot of time in that ep making them seem like yuppie jerks. They were not portrayed in the best of lights.

Frederik B, I didn't post that part of the quote because you already alluded to it, I was supplying the rest of the quote to emphasize that it wasn't as black and white as you implied Gilligan made it out to be.

There's a wide gulf between "ok, Walt accomplished the one thing he said he set out to accomplish in Episode 1" and "Gilligan gave Walt the ending he always wanted". That in no way was how Walt imagined himself going out when he first started playing Meth Kingpin.

Would call you crazy, Josh, on Lynch comparisons, but dead body bobbing up and down on massage chair was totally on-spot.

Also Uncle Jack seems like he may have had an Uncle Frank.

They spent a lot of time in that ep making them seem like yuppie jerks. They were not portrayed in the best of lights.

― Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, October 1, 2013 10:38 AM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

again, this is where viewing things all in context of one episode hurts. this is not how they were portrayed in episodes leading up - I felt like it was more a "compare/contrast" type deal with displaying two well-to-do yuppies arguing about pedantic shit as they unknowingly walk by their drug kingpin ex-partner, who has basically lived in the underworld for two years.

yeah

ghost andrea: jeeesseeee killl brock so we can be together in heaaaaaven

― conrad, Tuesday, October 1, 2013 10:34 AM (5 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

lol

Just some theorizin': Walt intended to kill Jesse because he probably expected Jesse to have turned the tables on his captors just as Walt expects that he would've done in similar circumstances. He expects to see Jesse willfully colluding with the Nazis and coming out on top because that's what you do (in Walt's eyes). And then when he sees that Jesse is just Jesse and he's being used as a tool, he decides to save him. There may have even been a moment when Walt saw from the other side what he had personally put Jesse through and felt a degree of contrition.

oh yeah, Walt and guns, nm

the yuppie jerk thing is in the eye of the beholder. you could have had them talking about how much they hate foodies and it'd still be people calling them jerks. if they were discussing literally anything and some people would still assume it was meant to be an illustration of how banal they were.

I do agree that Jesse got shafted w/r/t closure. He didn't even get to finish screaming his euphoric/traumatized scream before the camera cut back to Walt. I hated that, because it was such a good moment, and it was like Gilligan figured it wasn't even worth dwelling on.

― zchyrs, Tuesday, October 1, 2013 9:14 AM (20 minutes ago)

aaaaaghhhsdaf;kldaslfkjas'doriqew[p9iru
Perhaps the scream is cut off to convey the idea that this is a trauma he'll never get past. JUST MAYBE.

One question I had, and this is neither here nor there, was whether Walt felt anger when he saw them on Charlie Rose, or was that just his realization that they offered a way to get money to his family?

Of course, that would never happen, because while all of Walt's other crazy schemes never went right. That exploding meth early on, the train heist, magnets ... but getting money past the DEA funneled through these Bill Gates types who give away millions? Nah.

One question I had, and this is neither here nor there, was whether Walt felt anger when he saw them on Charlie Rose, or was that just his realization that they offered a way to get money to his family?

Both! Almost all of the either-or propositions being pushed around this thread like brussells sprouts are not either-or propositions!

actual footage of me removing my bookmark from this thread:
http://24.media.tumblr.com/145bf46175269c90dc82caeeadd1e2fd/tumblr_mtzse9IVgZ1qglx18o1_250.gif

Brussels sprouts shredded and pan fried with bacon are awesome.

I love 'em seasoned and roasted with grapes.

What about hank's geodes? Prbly still sitting in storage somewhere, waiting for hank to come home.

Poor geodes.

No closure.

They were just a fad. They're in storage with the Beanie Babies.

Storage wars cameo

Daryl will trade them for a half smoked cigarette

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_u1XSp-Q9x3A/S3XWrQPSQ_I/AAAAAAAAASY/eb8clidnHSg/s320/geode.jpg

I want a Meth Lab Rescue spinoff where Cranston comes to your meth lab, criticizes your yield, and fires one of your cook staff

lol

"You call this pure? This is 72% tops. This is garbage. I wouldn't sell this to the Czech market, for god's sake."

gr8080 otm

Walt thinks he checked these things off his to do list, but as has been the case for the entire show, he was being dishonest with himself. There was very little actual redemption in his character even if he did set things into motion that he thought would eventually succeed.

― carl agatha, Tuesday, October 1, 2013 10:30 AM (55 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

i agree with this but i also suspect that this irony is more true of Vince Gilligan himself than something he knowingly engineered.

Also don't forget Gretchen and Elliott offered to pay for the best cancer treatment money could buy, and give Walt a cushy job - which he refused out of pride. So he could have got what he said he wanted - financial security for his family - without destroying his family, killing Hank, etc. He might even be alive a lot longer... So I don't think the Schwartzes are unsympathetic at all - and all the banal yuppie talk is making fun of them a bit, but also a rueful glimpse of what Walt and Skyler's lives might would have been like. But that path is repugnant to Walt. He wouldn't have gotten what he really wanted - to be Heisenberg, to be alive, to be able to say "I did it for me", to be a sociopath... So it's hard to look at his plan for Gretchen and Elliott to pass on the money as a real win - he'd already refused that security - but he did get what he wanted because he did it on his own terms. But what he wanted was horrible for everyone else - as everything he's done.

otm

I know we don't capital n Need the info, but it would have been useful to learn how an accomplished chemist who had a hand in creating/founding a Nobel Prize winning billion dollar venture wound up teaching high school. Surely the former afforded plenty of pride, or more than the latter. Backstory is only so important, but given that rage and resentment is what's driven Walt all along, it would have been helpful.

dude it was pride that made him leave the company! the details are hazy but it's pretty clear he got up on his high horse and hightailed it out of there.

I think it's interesting the way that the show has occasionally manipulated the viewer into sharing Walt's warped perceptions about his world. Gretchen & Elliott are in no way villainous or antagonistic, and Walt's ire towards them has been shown to be baseless and petty, but people still cheer when Walt gets one over on the feckless yuppies. The existence of a Team Walt comprised of unsophisticated viewers is somewhat understandable.

I also think part of the viewer enmity towards the Schwartzes is generated by the fact that BB is to some degree a cautionary tale of what can happen when frustrated and overly-intelligent people find themselves backed into the 99% corner. Misdirected anger in the midst of a class struggle and all that.

xpost

agreed but I think the episode where they revealed that was almost too long ago for people to remember.

before that there were hints that the company was somehow "stolen" from Walt and I think that's still the impression ppl have of Gretchen and Elliott

that the same conversation and episode though. gretchen reacts with the line "you.. can't REALLY believe that's what happened" or something thereabouts, and knowing Walt she's definitely more believable

I like that it's not 100% clear whether Walt was legitimately wronged or not - but knowing Walt, I got the impression that Gretchen was being honest when she said he just stomped off in a huff.

It's consistent with everything else - he could have made millions with Gus, or by cooking and paying off "Mike's guys", or by taking his 1/3 from selling the methylamine when Mike and Jesse wanted out. He always fucked it up out of pride. Never exactly a team player.

ha "knowing walt"... spent too much time thinking about this show, clearly