Shall we anticipate the FIFTH SEASON of the AMC series "Breaking Bad"? I think I may.

if you think about like he's wile e coyote it makes more sense

walt's pride in general, think ppl reading too much in it being specifically gretchen and elliot (beyond reminding us that this heisenberg aspect of walt was always there), it could've just as easily (if not as plausibly) been bogdan or those punks that made fun of walt jr or those dudes buying cook supplies at home depot or whatever. as much as it was walt backing out of doing the smart thing for his family and himself tbh and instead letting his ego and rage guide him i still got a thrill at the extended theme and the cops arriving just a little too late, had an actual 'team walt' moment. kinda think breaking bad is overrated (if still pretty great, pantheon show, etc) but of those pantheon shows it might be the best for pure entertainment value, it's neck and neck w/ the sopranos in any case and one weird side effect of this breaking bad end run is it's made me reevaluate the sopranos and realize i may have been underrating a show i already rated pretty fucking highly.

as someone who just completed watching the Sopranos last year... i don't know if people will rewatch in the future and look at that show as fondly. did not hold up for me at all. to be fair it deserves all the credit for being the trailblazer for all these shows that came afterward

xpost no but gretchen and elliot get to the heart of what walt's pride issues *are* -- he wants to be the smartest guy in the room, he wants people to know it. he blew it once with gretchen and elliot however that happened and he had sublimated the regret/anger/whatever, but it all came roaring back once he created that blue meth --- suddenly he wanted everyone to know his name, and he wanted the world to know HE created it. gretchen and elliot are kind of the monkey on his back, not them specifically but what they represent, that first missed opportunity for him to be the name that everyone knew

bogdan would never incite the deep level of prideful emasculation that gretchen and elliot can bring out in walt. because they remind him that HE blew it.

I think the whole Gray Matter TV interview is a red herring, if people think it'll lead to Walt going after Gretchen & Elliott. Like VG says, it's more psychological reminder, bringing forth Walt's pride issues. I think the most important thing in that TV interview, the thing that makes Walt change his mind about turning himself in to the cops, is the mention that the blue meth is still making the rounds. It's been shown before that Walt feels a perverted pride for having created this super-pure brand of metamphetamine, so I think the reason he decides to go after the Nazis is that he feels they have stolen his franchise (just like he feels Elliott & Gretchen stole Gray Matters from him).

It's unclear whether Walt figures out Jesse is cooking for the Nazis (he probably does, since so far Jesse and he have been the only ones able to cook the blue stuff), and whether he realizes Jesse is being forced to do that (this one is more ambiguous, maybe Walt thinks the Nazis somehow managed to turn Jesse to their side). But the point is, since Walt can't do anything with his money, his pride is pretty much the only thing he has left, the only thing driving him.

I think Walt will find some convoluted way to get the money and get it to skyler and walt jr. and that will be his ego victory over Gray Matter

pride comes before a fall

- todd to kill jesse
- lydia to kill todd & nazis
- skylar in jail
- walt dead from cancer
- walt jr, holly & brock in care
- gretchen & elliot ricin'd

felina is spanish for scorched earth

I think the Gretchen and Elliot thing is absolutely the most important motivator in this entire series, the key and initial faultline in Walt's psyche that all the other shit - son with cerebral palsy, crappy jobs, bored wife, cancer, Tuco, meth, Mexican cartels, etc etc etc - has wedged into like a crowbar and prised apart his entire being. It's totally Walter White Male Entitlement. He feels owed. He's arrogant and bitter. And now he's practically dead too. He's made almost entirely out of resentment at this point. In the pilot he had the trappings of a decent life but no way to maintain the mechanism enough to appreciate it, and that's because he was always constantly aware that he could have had a Nobel Prize and a million in the bank and a reputation and a legacy and actually he had... well, a wife, and a son, and a decent house with a pool and a respectable job, but not the emotional maturity to enjoy that. And now he's got nothing but a barrellful of dollars and some ricin and an M60 so he's sure as fuck gonna take what he sees as vengeance on who he sees as having wronged him. And I reckon that's pretty much everyone bar his family. And maybe even them.

wouldn't hate on him too much for being annoyed that he wasn't a millionaire nobel prize winner but instead had the joy of working in a car wash getting abuse from bogdan.

then... he sees his old partners disavow his help in starting their company and then... then... that's supposed to be the reason he comes back? i don't really get it.

Walt is supremely egotistical and concerned with posterity. Going down in history as a meth kingpin, that's one thing, going down as a meth kingpin AND an insignificant chemist? No fucking way.

There's an episode midway through I think S4 where Walt is basically out of the whole thing but goes back partly because of his vanity about the blue meth 'brand' being diluted. The meth business appeals to exactly that sense of frustrated professional pride.

Coupled with the Schwarz stuff in the interview is the revelation that the blue meth is circulating again - Walt knows there's only one person who can make this and for all he knows Jesse is out there getting all the money and recognition.

(xpost - what people have already said)

he's sure as fuck gonna take what he sees as vengeance on who he sees as having wronged him.

Sure, but in the season 1 episode Walt and Gretchen talked about him leaving her and Gray Matter, it seemed like it was solely Walt's decision, her and Elliott didn't force it, or do anything wrong in general. Okay, maybe Walt now wants revenge on the pair because they belittled his role in the formation of the company on TV, but I dunno, that'd seem like a weird tangent for the show to take during its final episode.

and that's because he was always constantly aware that he could have had a Nobel Prize and a million in the bank and a reputation and a legacy and actually he had... well, a wife, and a son, and a decent house with a pool and a respectable job, but not the emotional maturity to enjoy that

And he was dying of cancer with a disabled son and a new baby on the way and no money.

Even before he knew he was dying of cancer he wasn't appreciating his life at all.

xposts: Tuomas, it was only Walt's decision because of a combination of ego-pride and nose-to-spite-face moralism.

Walt's always been a pathetic, passive-aggressive asshole.

Walt is supremely egotistical and concerned with posterity. Going down in history as a meth kingpin, that's one thing, going down as a meth kingpin AND an insignificant chemist? No fucking way.

I still don't get what exactly he could do to remedy this? Killing Elliott and Gretchen won't do anything to make his chemist reputation better. Is he gonna force them at gunpoint to make a videotape where they confess he had a bigger role in Gray Matter? Sounds unlikely, and if everyone knows the confession was made via death threat, it's not gonna sound very credible.

Even before he knew he was dying of cancer he wasn't appreciating his life at all.

his life was shit! he wasn't appreciating cos he is a genius who amounted to nothing. it's perfectly justified. is he supposed to start a book club or something and just think "ho hum, i'll just have another kid and die"

That may well be true but we didn't really see him before the cancer, but the idea that his life was basically fine from the start is patently nonsense.

Any Gretchen and Elliott stuff will presumably take the form of an illuminating flashback. What might be cool would be the reveal that Walt was actually a mediocre chemist all along, or at least not world class, it would blow that side of his self justification apart.

He does have a Nobel price on his wall though, that would seem to rule out him being a mediocre chemist. Unless it's revealed he was piggybacking some more talented chemists.

it would be a bit shit if he turned out to just be a moron.

I think Walt's probably written-off posterity at this point and just wants revenge, but who knows.

Love the idea of a flashback revealing him to be mediocre; not a moron, but not as good as he thought.

His life was shit, but it was shit because he was a dick, not because the ingredients for a decent, happy life weren't there. He couldn't work it; hence Hank's "smartest guy I know but you can't see he made his mind up 10 minutes ago"; Walt's crap with emotions and people.

Actually, the plaque says on his wall says he was a "project leader" for research that won the Nobel. I think the Nobel is one of the things that makes the plot seem a bit less credible: even if he got out of Gray Matter, you expect us to believe that a guy who won a Nobel price can't find any more lucrative jobs on the chemistry field than a hig school teacher?

Walt never writes anything off, he's still trying to get money to his family ffs.

His life was shit, but it was shit because he was a dick, not because the ingredients for a decent, happy life weren't there

He was still working/being bullied in a car wash on top of his regular job because he otherwise couldn't afford to feed his family even before the medical expenses. That's pretty shitty even for people who don't feel they should otherwise be massively successful and world-renowned chemists. Just going "he should have been happy with what he had" doesn't really take into account how professional frustration and/or destroyed potential actually affect people.

I mean obviously building a meth empire is an extreme reaction to that, no one's arguing that Walt isn't fundamentally a dick here but he (probably) wasn't always as much of one.

I think the Nobel is one of the things that makes the plot seem a bit less credible: even if he got out of Gray Matter, you expect us to believe that a guy who won a Nobel price can't find any more lucrative jobs on the chemistry field than a hig school teacher?

think it's more meant to be that his asshole streak means he won't allow himself to be out there hustling for work. or to do the thing he should be doing. he is a bite your nose off to spite your face kind of guy.

If you're quite good (or maybe even really good; or just want to be really good) at something, but have a degree of insecurity about it, combined with a degree of ego, that can totally freeze you from actually doing it. Your insecurity absolutely fears rejection and failure, and but your ego demands that people respect you for the thing you're good at. This combination of insecurity, ego, and some kind of moralism too, can make you not want to do the thing at all unless it's on your terms. I can identify with that to a degree. So Walt, after trying and almost succeeding, but having circumstances foil, extricated himself completely, chose the path of least resistance, as it were, but could never reconcile what he tasted and lost with where he ended up. And then cancer and meth and Tuco and and and and and we end up here.

i agree with that.

Yeah I'd got with that, a lot hinges on whether Walt was fucked over or whether he fucked up. Or maybe made some kind of idiot Heisenberg power play that failed.

Even if he fucked-up, his addled, ego-driven, insecure mind may well have retro-fitted his understanding of what happened so that he feels like he got fucked-over.

If you're quite good (or maybe even really good; or just want to be really good) at something, but have a degree of insecurity about it, combined with a degree of ego, that can totally freeze you from actually doing it. Your insecurity absolutely fears rejection and failure, and but your ego demands that people respect you for the thing you're good at. This combination of insecurity, ego, and some kind of moralism too, can make you not want to do the thing at all unless it's on your terms.

But Walt still managed to become a project leader for a project that won a Nobel... I don't think that's a position you can reach if you always choose the path of least resistance and never want to make compromises.

You're misunderstanding: yes, he did that, but whatever event it was that foiled his ambitions happened AFTERWARDS, and from thereon in he chose the path of least resistance.

And teaching is the PERFECT path of least resistance; it's not actually 'easy' (though the science part of it might be for Walt, the engaging with young people etc wont be), it's morally acceptable (giving something back), you can do it anywhere, it's regarding as 'rewarding' (even though, to Walt, it clearly wasn't, cos he seems to be about the joy of science rather than the joy of pedagogy), etc etc etc.

Don't forget he's had several months to stew on it all in solitude so his thinking may be even more fucked up/ extreme Heisenberg

Good point.

Y'all are missing the point that Walt really hates Charlie Rose. Guys with colors in their name gotta watch out on this show.

I predict that Walt will get himself booked on Charlie Rose then pull a Howard Beale. "Remember my name! Remember ... cough cough ... my name!!!!!"

kind of sad that the show sort of seems to vilify high school teaching compared to being big pharma. Walt's life could have been "a success" if he had learned to appreciate it and live more openly and accept himself

solitary posts that effortlessly etc

They talk over and across each other constantly, their conversations cross-pollinating, topics bursting into side topics and tangents: Malcolm X, Andy Warhol, West Nile virus, Alaskan salmon, cruise ships, Rastafarians, back-in-the-day MTV videos, Schoolhouse Rock cartoons, drug laws, gun laws, cop shootings, the Ten Commandments, the Seven Deadly Sins. It goes on and on, ever-changing, devoid of weight. It is chitchat mania, right up until the discussion turns to why they're doing this, why they're sitting in a candlelit room on a workday morning, geeked out of their skulls.

when jesse was throwing money around he should have tossed 50k in the mailbox of that janitor from season 1

maybe...he did DUN DUN DUN

the twist ending is Jesse is Tuco's son - and Tuco is not dead - Tuco was really Hank -

Can't believe this Albuquerque show has gone so long without playing The Shins. Guess they were saving that one for the finale.

Yeah I mean the characters in this really look like fans of milquetoast indie.

Actually Walter Jr might be.

he's a fan of milquetoast acting

that janitor from season 1

HUGO

SAY HIS NAME

watched the "say my name" scene again recently, it really is as if walt is getting sexual gratification.

worth noting that s1 has quite a few sex scenes acting as a barometer of walt's self esteem, after that it's like his lust gets subsumed by his lust for power

Yeah Walt has really not seemed to care about sex since that time he tried to crack onto the principal. Even Skylar is there primarily as an accomplice.

Sex isn't high among the motivational factors of any of the characters really, except maybe Todd.

on the BB podcast, they made a big deal about only having a limited time to shoot the Charlie Rose scene with the actress who plays Gretchen because she was doing a play on Broadway when they were shooting - definitely made it sound like we wouldn't see Gretchen and Elliott in the final episode.