Shall we anticipate the FIFTH SEASON of the AMC series "Breaking Bad"? I think I may.

I've been listening to the Breaking Bad podcast - which does have a few moments of genuine insight from Gilligan and the writers, but the backslapping and shout-outs on the level of "the clean-up crew guys we have are just amazing - they were out there raking the desert between every take" make it a bit of a slog... never seen Talking Bad though.

yeah but Gilligan is a genuine give-props-where-props-are-due guy, I don't find that part annnoying -- that's his personality

I will watch the Hader Talking Bad episode

I hate-watched Talking Dead so I know what I'm in for ---it's only ever as good as the guests, otherwise it's just an annoying circle-jerk

i don't watch commentary tracks between episodes a show, i wait until i've seen the whole season, if ever

xpost
I know, it's sweet that he's so into his team - just a lot of other things I'd rather hear him talk about...

I'm more blown away by Hank's death on a narrative/thematic level the more I think about it. I spent the last week devising a million different scenarios for Walt to save the day (much as I'm sure Walt was doing in the back seat of the car between episodes). The viewer, like Walt, grew so convinced of his ability to weasel out of any tight spot that it became almost inconceivable that things might not go his way. When he finally encounters a situation that he can't maneuver around with brains/luck/money/force, he and we are slapped in the face by the true limit of his power and everything unravels. I'm sure there was a lot of discussion in the writer's room about whose death was going to be the one to underscore Walt's ultimate impotence. As bleak as it was, it could've been a lot worse (and the knife fight was a bazillion times more tense given that it took place during the same episode).

in case anyone missed it (tuomas), Hank died mid-episode

I was half-expecting Walt to drive up and waltz in when Marie was strong-arming Sky-ra ... if only he hadn't run outta gas he might have pulled it off (I assume that's what the point of that barrel-rolling scene was, to give Marie time to work her conversion scheme)

i love how self-aware the staging and direction of the knife scene was...they knew how keyed we are to expect a tragic accident - at one point i swear they just hold the thing up so walt jr could just leap on to it - but it winds up serving as a misdirect for when walt takes holly instead

Was convinced Holly was going to croak before the end of the episode.

me too

and just how layered the motivations are. Marie's treatment of Skylar, Walt's treatment of everybody, you can't say they're just being cruel or just trying to help. the resentments and love are so intertwined

at one point i swear they just hold the thing up so walt jr could just leap on to it

yeah the next shot after she grabbed the knife was of her waving the knife in front of Walt Jr.'s torso

Walt's phonecall where he threatened to kill Skyjar seemed a bit OTT to me - I mean, what motivation would he have to kill her now? it would be sort of pointless.

that's the thing - even if he was aware of the police and on some level trying to get her out of trouble, that wasn't a cooly considered rant he was giving

again, that call was to clear skyler from being charged as his accomplice
it was ott because it was meant to be

that whole monologue was *ridiculously* cruel

felt like todd and jack both knew right away that they were gonna keep jesse as a meth slave

The question remains, did Walt figure this out too, or did he buy Todd's lie that they're just gonna make Jesse tell everything he knows, then kill him? Because if Walt bought it and thought they'd kill him, then I guess the plot for the final two episodes is that Walt somehow (via Saul?) finds out about Jesse's fate, gets a final pang of conscience, buys the gun and saves Jesse, and dies. Which would be okay, I guess, except that I'm not sure if I want such a clean redemption arc for Walt, and making the final bad guys to be Evil Nazis feels a bit too easy, a bit too black-and-white for a series like this.

Anyway, whatever happens, I predict the final scene of the show will be Jesse in the midst of Alaskan nature.

it was a hotly considered rant that was killing him to do it but it was "the right thing to do"

forks are you genuinely under the impression that walt knows exactly what he's doing and saying every second here? To me, he's one step ahead and three steps back.

do you think he intentionally took holly to get skylar to call the cops so he could give a planned rant where every line had a specific intention?

Wasn't he trying to get the cops to protect her? in reality from Lydia and the Nazis, but by making the cops think she's in danger from him

There was definitely a mixture of calculated goodwill (wanting the best outcome for his family amidst incredibly fucked up circumstances) and desperate anger (lamenting the fact that he'll never have any of that family in his life again) in Walt's call to Skyler.

xpost i meant with the call - not snatching holly

xp
nah, i don't think he had any idea what he was doing when he took holly. that was walt and walt is out of control and ridiculous I AM THE ONE WHO KNOCKSness
the "mama" bit took him out of not seeing the situation analytically. the phone call was heisenberg, same as the "confession" video was.

i've watched the scene three times now and i'm pretty sure that's the intention by the writers/actors

i dunno that's way too binary imo

those were genuine resentments he threw at skylar, some he's had since ep 1

i do think he knew the cops were there but dude was exorcising some demons at the same time

this would be a worse show if out-of-control walt and heisenberg were truly separable personas

http://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2013/09/-em-breaking-bad-em-did-walter-white-betray-his-family-or-begin-to-save-them/279664/

The one moment that rang false tonight was Walter calling Skyler and ranting at her over the phone. That conversation displayed both a level of monstrousness we’d yet to see from Walter, and a stupidity that seemed out of character. Of course the cops would be listening in. Tears fell from his eyes as he snarled at his wife, and only after the episode finished did I realize that Walter had been putting on a show for Skyler’s sake—going full-Heisenberg to make it seem like she’d been intimidated into keeping quiet. When he likely ensured Holly’s return to Skyler by surrendering the baby at the fire station—god, that “mama” scene!—it was a sign that there’s some humanity left in him. So here might be the true shock of the night: Hidden in this draining hour of TV, with two episodes remaining, we saw hints of Walter’s redemption.

Think about how Walt "saved" Skyler with that threatening phone call. Yes, he knew that the police were listening in. You're right about that, Spencer. It's how he hopes to absolve her from his crimes. If the police think that Walt coerced Skyler into helping build his meth empire, maybe she'll escape punishment. Yet, consider the subtext of that phone call: Did he mean what he said? Even if it was a ruse, did he believe it? Perhaps, in a dark recess of their shared mind, Heisenberg did. And Walt? The only thing he has left to offer to his family is the threat of violence. Maybe he believes what he said, maybe he doesn't. Either way, he's still deluded enough to think that he does what he does to help his family—even after he's lost them.

it's not a question of it being "binary", it's the way cranston is playing the character and he's acknowledged it in multiple interviews. it's just not all on the sleeve. what's great about the show is that they let the subtle be the subtle and play the scenes out where that material is there if you want it. you don't HAVE to see it that way. hence: great show.

I think it's pretty obvious he took Holly because he wanted Holly and then realized 1) it was going to be impossible to go on the lam with a kidnapped 18 month old and 2) Skyler (and Walt Jr) were going to get really badly fucked over by the police. The phone call is equal parts venom and a desire to try to protect Sklyer (and Walt Jr and Holly). It's fantastically done.

and 3) who could resist that kid crying for her mama. Come on even Walt has a heart.

i still wish she had just cried and not gone full dinosaurs

I guess the plot for the final two episodes is that Walt somehow (via Saul?) finds out about Jesse's fate, gets a final pang of conscience, buys the gun and saves Jesse, and dies

that's possible - but there are so many other ways it could go.

I like how they've kind of hermetically sealed off what happens next episode, so predictions are really hard. we know the basic plot elements - and where the final episode will presumably start - but how we get there could go at least a half-dozen different ways.

there's depths to walt's motivations no doubt and yeah there's a part of him that really IS calling her a stupid bitch, i wouldn't argue that he's not.
but the character's prime intention is "save the family" and some part of him thinks he's doing that even while he's kidnapping his daughter

then you're debating no one

yeah, i wasn't trying to debate? i was just celebrating how good the show is.
someone will argue with you shortly, be patient.

that's the thing - even if he was aware of the police and on some level trying to get her out of trouble, that wasn't a cooly considered rant he was giving

― da croupier, Monday, September 16, 2013 5:32 PM (16 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

again, that call was to clear skyler from being charged as his accomplice
it was ott because it was meant to be

― One burly voice screamed and that was one of many. (forksclovetofu), Monday, September 16, 2013 5:32 PM (16 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

yes, we're both correct.

you are the one who debates

why would you say "again" if you weren't suggesting people were missing something

but anyway, everyone agrees walt is resentful asshole who wants what's best for his family

There was a look on Skylar's face when she realized that Walt was giving her an out -- she still looked pained, but once he started ranting about how she really knew nothing and it was all his business it was a lock.

why would you say "again" if you weren't suggesting people were missing something

agree that it's "both" but also think his tears at the end suggest that Walt is finally recognizing his own damnation--he's lost everything in that moment, by his own doing. so i think the rant works on that level as well.

totally, it's an amazing scene - morbidly curious how the more reddity side of "team walt" takes it

the only interps i'm opposed to are ones in which Walt took holly as part of a master plan or is telling off skyler in the phone convo because he's a bad bad man

the nuances of acting that good, coming at what is more or less the climax of one of the best shows ever on television necessarily evokes different people leaning into different elements of the scene. i'm not surprised it is firing folks up.

there's some weird Team Walt stuff in the AMC comments, like how Jesse's a snitch and got what he deserved and it's too bad we didn't see him tortured, and Skyler's a bitch stuff like this:

I wished Walt would have held on to Holly (HIS DAUGHTER TOO) and forced his wife & son to leave town with him, but he can never trust them again so he must go alone without his family showing how "he's earned his money for his family" has just destroyed his family.

Also (potentially) amazing about Walt's rant? He may have gone some way towards repairing Jr.'s relationship with Skyler, which has been rocky at best through the majority of the series. Once it all really sinks in, Flynn will realize why she's been such a "stupid bitch" to his demon seed father (even if it does entail sparing him some of the honest details about his mother's level of involvement).