Pit Bulls: What's the appeal?

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Spence, one of the saddest things about pits is that they ARE so eager, and so loyal, and so affectionate, that it's relatively easy to train them to do terrible things by either rewarding violence with approval/affection or by simply hurting them and betraying their trust until that original congenial pack nature is perverted into mindless violence & constant defensive panic (in which case they basically have to be put down, I suspect).

It's a purposeful cycle of abuse that no creature should be subjected to, and it means living in misery for the dogs. The fact that they ARE muscular and have much more jaw strength than average is only a coincidence that has led them to be used for evil purposes in the first place. I mean, would anyone take seriously an attack basenji?

― Laurel, Thursday, 3 May 2007 01:23 (nineteen years ago)

Can anyone see why a woman in a scary neighbs would want to own a 'scary' dog? Or at least a larger one? I've got a pit-basset blend who's the sweetest, goofiest, dog ever, but people stay away from me & him because I've got him, whereas before I had him creepy old dudes would follow me around trying to get me to come home with them. I don't have a phone, car, or bicycle (or friends for that matter)---so the dog provides all the protection (perceived or real) and affection I need.

― Abbott, Thursday, 3 May 2007 01:23 (nineteen years ago)

the sheer brute strength of the pit bull is no joke, though. there are a lot of them at the shelter i volunteer for, and i can only walk the undersized or feeble.

Haha, have you seen them jump? The muscle is all in the hind legs. My girlfriend's family has a pit bull that can jump a ~4ft baby gate without a running start.

― C0L1N B..., Thursday, 3 May 2007 01:29 (nineteen years ago)

two great "scary" dog stories:
1) my mother's friend got a rottweiler for protection instead of an alarm. he was enormous and adorable and a total marshmellow. i remember "dancing" with him when i was a kid and about his size, as he loved to go on his hind legs. when the woman's house was robbed, the burglars pacified him with a loaf of bread and ransacked the place while he had his snack.
2) a friend got mugged a while back while taking his pit out for a late night walk. he was expecting the dog to make a ruckus; instead, it licked the mugger.

― lauren, Thursday, 3 May 2007 01:29 (nineteen years ago)

An even sadder story, Ben used to work with a young woman who was a Colunbia student living in a rough area, and who had a pit as a longtime companion. One night while walking the dog she got mugged (I think at knifepoint?) and the dog fought back, biting the mugger in some large number of places (15? 20?) and forcing him to get medical care. When the whole thing went to trial, a judge ruled that her dog was dangerous and ordered her destroyed, and the woman didn't have the resources to hire a lawyer to fight it. (I've always thought she might have had some options among animal-rights or breed-specialized groups but I think she lost hope during her trip through the system, and just gave in.)

Don't know the behind-the-scenes details cos I only heard it second-hand but I srsly doubt the outcome wd have been the same with a retriever or a Portugese water dog or something. Yes, when they DO attack, certain breeds/dogs can do a lot more damage, but that seems like the most clear-cut situation POSSIBLE to me, and a goddamn shame.

― Laurel, Thursday, 3 May 2007 01:42 (nineteen years ago)

Yeah, but why would you want to be a person that owns a marked breed during the time when they are feared?

Because we love them for their real qualities and wish to dismiss ignorant stereotypes about their imagined qualities? You may as well ask why would anyone want to associate with those dirty jews or niggers when everyone hates them?

― Oilyrags, Thursday, 3 May 2007 01:46 (nineteen years ago)

giant xp, and I wish I'd removed those question marks when I rewrote those sentences to not be rhetorical questions.

― Oilyrags, Thursday, 3 May 2007 01:47 (nineteen years ago)

After watching Cesar Milan deal with some people's little fluffy dogs I'm much more suspicious of those breeds than I am of bull terriers, herding dogs and other big 'uns by a long shot!

My sister works at a vet clinic, and the only dogs that have bit her have been the fluffy little purse dogs.

― Nicole, Thursday, 3 May 2007 01:50 (nineteen years ago)

They are the DEVIL'S ASSHOLES.

― Abbott, Thursday, 3 May 2007 01:52 (nineteen years ago)

would anyone take seriously an attack basenji?

No, and they shouldn't because the headstrong little bastards are virtually untrainable! You tell a basenji to kill, and it will do whatever the hell it wants, just like always.

― Oilyrags, Thursday, 3 May 2007 01:53 (nineteen years ago)

Well exactly.

― Laurel, Thursday, 3 May 2007 01:56 (nineteen years ago)

Still, they are deceptively powerful for their size and have very strong jaws. I once had a pair of jeans that a basenji took a bite out of (he was bored and I wasn't wearing them - just general breed destructiveness in action) and with one chomp he put a half-moon hole in the beltline - this while it was folded, so he actually bit through both sides of the jeans at once!

― Oilyrags, Thursday, 3 May 2007 02:01 (nineteen years ago)

WRINKLEHEAD!

http://www.basenji.it/images/2002/rughe.jpg

― Oilyrags, Thursday, 3 May 2007 02:06 (nineteen years ago)

my father-in-law was always nervous about letting our dog around my 10yo brother-in-law. of course, he had never seen a pit bull before, except for the horror stories on tv and in newspapers (btw this is a person who worries about *everything* anyway). even after years of observing our dog's good behavior, he could still only see her as "the pit bull."

the only dog in that house who ever bit my brother-in-law was an akita. akitas are a breed known not to be the best with children, but my father-in-law was never concerned about *that* dog being around a child. because in his mind akita=good family watchdog, pit bull=savage attack dog. irrational fear.

― Edward III, Thursday, 3 May 2007 02:16 (nineteen years ago)

Spencer, I have a thing for Bostons too, but Mr. Jaq is having none of that :( And wow, sorry about the chow thing, I seriously didn't connect that, was thinking of my sister's black chow who was a fierce looking dog and got scary, then tragic, as he went blind from congenital cataracts and started attacking things at random out of fear. His name was Charcoal and he was the most one-person dog I've come across, very protective of my sis and merely tolerant of most other humans.

― Jaq, Thursday, 3 May 2007 04:21 (nineteen years ago)

I've been so annoyed with dog owners and dog people in general that now I don't like dogs at all.

Yes, I know I shouldn't generalize based on the actions of a few, but what are you gonna do?

― Elvis Telecom, Thursday, 3 May 2007 05:40 (nineteen years ago)

watch amusing youtube vids of ducks annoying pit bull puppies?

― kingfish, Thursday, 3 May 2007 07:00 (nineteen years ago)

Dogs aren't human, Nathalie, it's not like they decide that the world has wronged them due to their unpriviliged upbringing and therefore successful people/children/the neighbors deserve to have their faces savaged off. They react to environment, and people in their environment, and if we want to force dogs to accommodate our lifestyles and live indoors, be people-friendly, communicate in ways that people respond to, we have to communicate in THEIR language as well.

Uh duh. I know that dogs aren't human. I have dog(s) so I know how it works. But following your logic, we would have the same dog based on how we treated'em. What I meant was that dogs have a temparement and no matter how much you train the dog, s/he will inherently have some traits that can't be completely changed. Of course training and treatment of a dog has a major impact in how a dog behaves, but there's also his temerament. I always keep that in mind. Laurel, you misunderstood me: I said it was a mix of the dog itself and its environment. To merely see it as how dogs are trained is a simplification. A dog is not a tabula rasa.

Also, it's as if you are saying that the dogs react to the dogs mishandling them and hence bite their face off? I know that's not what you're saying.

― nathalie, Thursday, 3 May 2007 07:16 (nineteen years ago)

I mean do you guys really not understand that many normal and nice people are scared when certain types of dogs are around?

For me it's all about the interaction of owner and dog. If they're both friendly-looking and the dog isn't festooned in huge studded leather bits and pieces to try and make it look even harder, and the owner actually looks like they're in control of the dog, then I'm not afraid of them, because I know that even if the dog would bite me on cue, the owner's probably not going to give that cue. If, on the other hand, I meet a pit bull/rottweiler/dobermann/boxer/other "status" dog dragging around some young bloke who obviously hasn't got a clue what he's doing, then I steer clear, because that dog doesn't know what it's meant to be doing, so it's going to do what it wants.

In Ireland we have a huge stray dog problem and a huge animal cruelty problem. It's so backward you wouldn't believe it. We have some of the most notorious puppy farms in Europe, and over 50,000 dogs are put to sleep every year, many of them pedigree animals that people just give up on because they can't deal with them and should never have got them in the first place. So, when I read Abbott's post above about keeping an intact male pit bull around for casual breeding purposes, it gives me The Fear, because in this country it would result in untrained, unloved, neglected pit bulls running around loose annoying people until they were eventually surrendered to a pound at nine months or so (when they stop being cute) to be killed. Very sad. (I know that's not what will happen in your case, Abbott, I'm just using it as an example.)

― accentmonkey, Thursday, 3 May 2007 07:23 (nineteen years ago)

http://granite.dogster.com/pix/wcdcs_dog_finalists/144.jpg

― kingfish, Thursday, 3 May 2007 16:23 (nineteen years ago)

A guy who lives up the street from me got his face (literally) ripped half-off from his own dog, which was a pit x lab. He's got his face stiched back on, but it's a pretty tuff scar. Not sure of the exact circumstances, but to have your own dog flip on you is something to ponder and avoid.

― Andi Mags, Thursday, 3 May 2007 23:16 (nineteen years ago)

accentmonkey otm!

My mum-in-law wants to breed him bcz he's a good specimen, help other breeders in the area looking to improve the breed. Responsible placement w/families. As well you knew. :) I guess "farm him out" was a pretty inaccurate phrase.

The guy she's buying him from, he's 90. 90! And he's been breeding UKC pits for 40. In smalltown NM, wtf? But he's also VERY careful & responsible about breeding/matching owners/etc. Which just warms my heart so much! He says the main problem he's had is people breaking into his backyard to steal his puppies. :(

― Abbott, Thursday, 3 May 2007 23:23 (nineteen years ago)

Also, apparently, the breeder guy's followed the lifes of all the male pups and he says the ones who were uncut ended up with kinder temperaments toward people! Which I don't fully understand, but he's been at it for 40 years so I guess he knows how his bloodlines TEND to act.

― Abbott, Thursday, 3 May 2007 23:25 (nineteen years ago)

I'm surprised nobody has pointed out that a lot of people might own a pit bull for the simple reason that there are a LOT of them in shelters these days who need good homes and they are pretty cute and friendly, like all dogs.

― jessie monster, Thursday, 3 May 2007 23:50 (nineteen years ago)

i'm a sucker for a dog that can't kill me.

― M@tt He1ges0n, Thursday, 3 May 2007 23:59 (nineteen years ago)

Like none of them? No matter what size, if their bite wound punctures the skin, their BACTERIA can kill you, at least.

― Abbott, Friday, 4 May 2007 04:45 (nineteen years ago)

that's not what he means, obviously.

what he means is that he;s afraid of big scary dogs, and doesn't make any fine distinctions among them.

― kenan, Friday, 4 May 2007 04:47 (nineteen years ago)

I understand. If you get a puncture wound, though, go to hospital: staph and necrotizing fasciitis aren't fun. I suppose I was being a pedant. But someone could come along and be even more of a pedant and say, 'no the dog's bacteria killed you, not the dog,' & debate forever while poor M@tt stood there bleeding.

― Abbott, Friday, 4 May 2007 04:50 (nineteen years ago)

if you have decided not to like dogs, this is all an unwinnable argument.

nd I'm in that club, I guess -- though I don't, like, KICK dogs or anything, I just like cats.

― kenan, Friday, 4 May 2007 04:52 (nineteen years ago)

And i'm certainly not afraid of dogs that are well behaved and properly restrained. I will show them love. Same as I will other people's babies.

― kenan, Friday, 4 May 2007 04:54 (nineteen years ago)

I just wanted to note the importance of going to hospital if dog bite punctures the skin: it seriously leads to very bad infections.

The cat/dog dichotomy is limiting our perceptions of petly friendship!

― Abbott, Friday, 4 May 2007 04:56 (nineteen years ago)

maybe a little... cat people can love dogs, and they can even become dog people, but they will never ever be Big Dog people. You cannot go from a cat to a Rottweiler. No way. And it's arguable, at least in my case, that cat people are they way they are because they can leave their pet alone with food and water for 48 hours, and that pet will be golden. Dog people are way more tied to their pet.

― kenan, Friday, 4 May 2007 05:01 (nineteen years ago)

I AM SO CONFUSED. I LOVE BOTH THE DOG AND THE CAT. And so many do not!

― Abbott, Friday, 4 May 2007 05:02 (nineteen years ago)

I love the doggies, but I do not have the time, space, energy, or disposition to take to care of one. If anything, I like dogs too much to get one.

― kenan, Friday, 4 May 2007 05:05 (nineteen years ago)

my grandma had a tiny little gray curly-haired dog (i am not familiar with the breeds) named 'piper' who always used to beat the shit out of me when i was a toddler, incl tearing a chunk of my forehead, thigh, & presumably other areas of my body. i was never hospitalized but is this possibly what made me into the mental & physical weakling i am today?

also, might this be the reason i like to decapitate puppies, open their skulls, & eat their brains with a spoon?

― deeznuts, Friday, 4 May 2007 05:14 (nineteen years ago)

(thats actually what old school country ppl used to do w/ squirrels btw)

― deeznuts, Friday, 4 May 2007 05:15 (nineteen years ago)

old school ~~country~~ zombie ppl

fixed

― kenan, Friday, 4 May 2007 05:18 (nineteen years ago)

I LOVE BOTH THE DOG AND THE CAT. And so many do not!

This is kinda interesting -- I like dogs, but could never own anything but a small one for reasons I mentioned a couple posts ago. Also, really big dogs seem like such an ENORMOUS investment in space and time that you may as well go ahead and have a child. If it's half your body weight and costs you extra rent, it's something more than a pet.

But what I really don't get is dog lovers who hate cats. Cats are so easy! They are furry, they have simple needs, they mostly leave you alone, and if you treat them right, they are every bit as affectionate. Way less slobber, too.

I'm thinking there's some divide between people who understand that a pet is a pet, as much as you may love them, and people who think that that a pet is actually a friend, which is what many dog owners seem to assume. Maybe I'm just a cat person, but that seems odd to me.

― kenan, Friday, 4 May 2007 05:42 (nineteen years ago)

http://www.badrap.org/rescue/img/rocky1.MOV

― Oilyrags, Saturday, 5 May 2007 15:14 (nineteen years ago)

I was watching Animal Planet last night and I saw a pomeranian that was WAY scarier and meaner than any big dog.

― jessie monster, Saturday, 5 May 2007 15:48 (nineteen years ago)

He says the main problem he's had is people breaking into his backyard to steal his puppies. :(

That's rubbish. Poor 90 year old dog-breeding dude. Stealing dogs is pretty low.

Way less slobber, too.

Anecdotal evidence alert! My dogs don't slobber unless they're actually running around down the beach. When they're in the house they usually just kip on the sofa. My cat, on the other hand, is a prick. He yowls all the time, he pisses on everything, and never sits still. He's the third cat I've owned that has pissed on things in the house. I'm not getting another cat when this one goes. My cat has made me not like cats.

― accentmonkey, Saturday, 5 May 2007 17:01 (nineteen years ago)

They can be bastards like that, accentmonkey. Our two have made me come to the same decision.

― Jaq, Saturday, 5 May 2007 17:09 (nineteen years ago)

I've seriously considered a mass cat-euthanasia after Tracy passes away, and having a pet-free year before adopting again.

― Rock Hardy, Saturday, 5 May 2007 18:14 (nineteen years ago)

I've no intention of having the hateful thing put to sleep, but by god, on the few occasions he's disappeared overnight, I've hoped he wouldn't come home again.

― accentmonkey, Saturday, 5 May 2007 20:35 (nineteen years ago)

Funny, Kenan, I would have said that a cat is a friend, because they're going to do whatever the hell they want whether you think of them as a pet or not, so you might as well convince yourself that they care and talk to them in a high voice and say "WHO'S A CAT? YOU ARE! THAT'S RIGHT, YOU'RE THE CAT". Whereas a dog is more empathic but you can't afford to treat them as JUST FRIENDS because both of you have to know who the boss is or you've got problems.

― Laurel, Sunday, 6 May 2007 01:21 (nineteen years ago)

Bah. Empathetic.

― Laurel, Sunday, 6 May 2007 01:22 (nineteen years ago)

Putting it graphically:

http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/cat_proximity.png

― kingfish, Sunday, 6 May 2007 01:51 (nineteen years ago)

I usually say stuff like "if you don't get on the linoleum to do that puking, I'm going to punch you in your nonexistant balls."

― Rock Hardy, Sunday, 6 May 2007 01:56 (nineteen years ago)

Oooh, this one's an oldie but a goodie, isn't it.

― Alex in NYC, Sunday, 6 May 2007 01:57 (nineteen years ago)

So how many pitbulls have you bought since then?

― Abbott, Sunday, 6 May 2007 01:59 (nineteen years ago)

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