Irish politics discussion thread

fg rebels have made a move?

http://cf.broadsheet.ie/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/reform.jpg

good to see Doyler taking an interest

hey, if you don't 'do' politics.....

"Serving the people of" = feck the rest of the country.

Good old Fidelma, she's figured out the twitterbox. Or at least an intern has. Her passwords are probably "12345" or "password" on everything. That's all I can believe after the whole "rape on Facebook thing".

Budget bantz starting up in earnest

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BA-g8YYPKVo&feature=youtube_gdata_player

A debate would be fun though. A pity End's not up for it.

yeah i prob amnt gonna vote with him on abolishing the upper house, but a debate would def help. posters are awful, really poor SAVE 20M LESS POLITICIANS jesus lads that's pretty fucking cheap stuff

budget? there'll be plenty of debate on it, i think the things they've been softening up for this past three years are coming though- means testing across the board on benefits like medical card and child benefit (can't quite recall did they even get this in last year or not?)

lord knows where else 3bn is coming from tho- surely not income tax (tho labour might press and get some level of higher-income hit perhaps) and fg aren't likely to touch corporation tax without trading some serious horseflesh with europe first

interestign arithmetic to follow imo

I thought the medical card was means tested already.

yeha sorry, i meant for the seniors- they tried to push that in under FF but there was uproar, i don't think it's been revisited yet (though i could be mistaken) but it will surely be one of the more acceptable pots to dip into if there's another 3bn to come

there's another thought- i haven't been following too closely- what proportion of the 3bn swing might come from increased income, i wonder.

Maybe they could reintroduce that old favourite, VAT on children's shoes and clothes.

if need be it'll go on indirectly

the relevant article on the budget mix on the irishtimes site is redirecting to a livestream of the dail protest- i wonder if they've been hacked or is it a blunder

Among the groups present are Anti-Eviction Ireland, Pensioners Against Cuts, Irish Republican Voice and the People’s Assembly, which consists of trade union, civil society and political organisations.

Ahead of the protest, People Before Profit Alliance TD Richard Boyd Barrett,

the motleyest of crus

http://cdn3.independent.ie/irish-news/article29292454.ece/ALTERNATES/h342/NWS_20130524_APO_011_27708446_I1.JPG

http://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/ireland-exits-recession-in-second-quarter-1.1533143

http://irishnewsreview.files.wordpress.com/2012/06/noonan.jpg

http://cf.broadsheet.ie/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/pearse-doherty.png

http://s2.thejournal.ie/media/2011/03/PA-10270391-310x415.jpg

kill em boys

kill em

Today heard protestors described as "vermin". Depressing.

Leave kids money alone. Hike up tax on GTAV and consoles. We'll have 3bn in a week.

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/use-of-martin-luther-king-quote-on-uvf-mural-perverse-1.1537304

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/sep/22/140000-found-bath-property-tom-mcfeely

discuss

Today heard protestors described as "vermin". Depressing

i'd reserve fairly strong terms for some of the groups involved, in private discussion anyway

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/telling-women-to-be-careful-gets-men-off-the-hook-1.1536337

jfc what has happened the IT under the new guy, it is just woeful

i agree with that article, dmac

Outside of that, do you think it was a well or poorly written/argued piece?

Thought it was brutally poor stuff meself tbh, but ot alone in that of late in the IT

But maybe its a nonsense to separate that out from agreeing or not idk, idk

the tone struck me as the kind of tone you oft find over the pond in op/ed pieces, didn't think the writing moved the needle in either direction for me w/r/t 'quality of the writing' insofar that should matter at all for op/ed pieces, which i generally don't read

i dunno how far 'lad' culture is seeded in the UK though

Not very as far as IT/Guardian readership goes, id have thought? Though you've got yr rugger bugger class i spose.

well i mention lad culture as perhaps behind the most obvious / visible manifestation of this sort of thing, but i think it's something that is perhaps more permeated than you might think

She also found that in 70 per cent of the cases, the judge permitted the defence to question the alleged victim’s sexual history.

this was a really surprising statistic to me, over here most states have enacted 'rape shield' laws which prevent this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_shield_law

what do you think of this situation? http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/07/us/montana-legal-officials-step-in-on-rape-case-sentence.html?_r=0

allowing questioning of sexual history is imo wrong

that situation in that ny case is obv wrong

see no connection with either of the above and almost anything she has to say about 'men' or they way in which she chooses to say it in the article

well i think the article is fighting a pretty widespread phenomenon, at least in the us (and i imagine the uk as well?) of victim-blaming, or placing the onus for preventing rape and sexual harassment entirely on women

i linked to the montana article because there you find an example of this kind of thinking poisoning parroted by someone in the american judiciary system, which imo is somewhat abler than average at keeping repugnant characters out (although upon further research it looks like this guy was an elected state court judge, and of course, lol montana)

but i dunno, you may think that you're above such moralizing but imo you find this kind of stuff surfacing from people who you would have otherwise thought were perfectly reasonable, agreeable people.. it's worth ferreting out

i don't really see why it's such an objectionable message, either. if the takeaway had been "don't murder, murder is bad" you would be nodding and agreeing with it, yeah? "don't commit sexual assault" should be an equally uncontroversial statement, yeah?

i think the article is largely using victim-blaming as an excuse to blame all members of a particular gender for something carried out by not very members of that gender.

i don't think i'm 'above such moralizing' if that was the actual message, but when it's dressed as it is in the article i don't think it ought to be defended just because you (non-personal you) are broadly sympathetic to the ideals that could (very kindly and selectively imo) be associated with it.

again, whether or not you feel 'it' is an objectionable message depends on what you felt the message was upon reading, fair enough. but 'don't murder, murder is bad' is a reasonable statement, 'don't commit sexual assault' is a reasonable statement', 'take precautions against violence' is a reasonable statement.

and as a corollary to that, were a columnist to utilise crime figures to show that eg travellers were responsible for whatever % of theft in a town, an article printed directed at all travellers telling them the responsibilites they bore as a group for these crimes would get very short shrift from most people that nonetheless see nothing wrong with this article.

'take precautions against violence' is a reasonable statement.

i will obv recognise that there is an inherent difference in a public safety message or campaign that focuses on the likely targets of a crime, obviously. i think that to take a wide-reaching righteous anger against all of society against the necessity for these messages (or the uselessness of a campaign appealing to rapists) and choose to focus it in this manner is next to pointless, and probably counter-productive in a lot of ways.

telling people to be vigilant is pretty archaic police talk but it is not to say that it's a victim's fault if something happens to them. government bodies issue messages of vigilance all the time - we can be certain in society there are people out there who will commit crimes - and we know we can't rely on them to obey a "please don't commit crime" message.

i do agree that in the case of rape it is a message that could be used by those who would blame the victim. but from an irish police pov i'd say it's more that duty of care/nanny state message, same as "lock your doors this christmas, burglars will be everywhere".

but from an irish police pov

lol

apologies in advance dayo for a delay in any further replies i must GO TO COLLEGE

http://www.rte.ie/news/2013/0930/477352-marriages-cso/

Fewer couples got married in 2011 compared with the previous year, while the average age of brides and grooms continues to rise, according to figures released today by the Central Statistics Office.
In 2011 the average groom was 34.5 years old when he got married, while the average bride was 32.5.

Last time I was home my mother and aunts were talking about this. I went through my sixth year class and the numbers since married or with children are in the single digits. Obviously social change etc but still interesting. They found it seriously disconcerting.

The statistics released today show that civil weddings now account for 29% of all marriages.

yep, both interesting- both positive!

the second stat v interesting vs the % of us the census is doctored to show as catholic

went through my sixth year class and the numbers since married or with children are in the single digits.

going through my leaving cert class of about 50 there's a heap of them got married in the past two years, maybe you're just 'not that age yet'?

were a columnist to utilise crime figures to show that eg travellers were responsible for whatever % of theft in a town, an article printed directed at all travellers telling them the responsibilites they bore as a group for these crimes would get very short shrift from most people that nonetheless see nothing wrong with this article.

― gangover over sam over (darraghmac), Tuesday, 24 September 2013

in this example, travellers would be a little less than half the population, but 4/5s of the police force & 3/4s of the judiciary. they'd be 75% of councillors in local authorities and 85% of the dail. they'd occupy 70% of management, director or senior positions @ work. etc. etc. etc. and they'd be responsible for ~100% of the crime.

in response, there'd be a consistent emphasis on the behaviour of non-travellers.

well I'm 28 now so judging by that I have a few years, but the basis of comparison for my mother is of course her generation; she married at 24 and had me at 25, and everyone we know got married young too.

i believe you're taking an illustrative and trying to argue an specific there zvooks, but convincingly enough for that argument- if that was anything like the argument.

they'd be responsible for ~100% of the crime

figure? can only find cso figs going back to 2006 showing men almost 50% more likely to be the victim of a crime.

xp

you've got the few years ahead of you yet ime, by 33 that figure will have skyrocketed.

tho yeah the jump in one generation definitely seems to have been 7-4 years which is startling

in yr corollary, theft takes the place of sexual assault

I'd be interested if there was a big difference between us and the UK in terms of ages of first marriages, especially in the last fifty years.

in yr corollary, theft takes the place of sexual assault

― zvookster, 30 September 2013 13:18 (21 seconds ago

didnt get as far as the breakdowns of the specifics tbh

in my corollary, holding a group responsible for the behaviours of a few is taking the place of exactly that

I'd be interested if there was a big difference between us and the UK in terms of ages of first marriages, especially in the last fifty years.

― gyac, 30 September 2013 13:18 (1 minute ago)

was gonna say not that i was aware, then i remember that obv all the english families i am aware of are p much irish

yr in denial

no, they are. kilburn chippies, brickies, the like

http://www.irishtimes.com/business/sectors/financial-services/ex-bush-adviser-predicts-20-year-economic-slump-for-ireland-1.1546629

lol

wouldnt sit in a class to hear this tbh

might stay to jeer briefly and fling faeces or w/e tbf

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/third-of-voters-say-3-1bn-budget-target-should-be-retained-1.1546865

interesting snapshot to show, imo, that most people are considerably more realistic than the media slant on AUSTERITY, which is a very positive thing i think.