defend the indefensible: glenn fucking greenwald

I strongly suspect the reality of the situation was somewhere NEAR what he says but shading ever-so-slightly towards "stupid fuck-up by an asshole overstepping their bounds"

but like, 9 hours? specifically asking about his reporting?

Did he ever get his phone and laptop back?

That never stops Glenn. He knows what everyone is thinking.

― TracerHandVEVO (Tracer Hand), Monday, August 19, 2013 12:17 PM (10 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

yup

Did he ever get his phone and laptop back?

It sounds like not? Which is like, stealing, by most definitions???

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/19/world/europe/britain-detains-partner-of-reporter-tied-to-leaks.html?_r=0

Mr. Miranda was in Berlin to deliver documents related to Mr. Greenwald’s investigation into government surveillance to Ms. Poitras, Mr. Greenwald said. Ms. Poitras, in turn, gave Mr. Miranda different documents to pass to Mr. Greenwald. Those documents, which were stored on encrypted thumb drives, were confiscated by airport security, Mr. Greenwald said. All of the documents came from the trove of materials provided to the two journalists by Mr. Snowden. The British authorities seized all of his electronic media — including video games, DVDs and data storage devices — and did not return them, Mr. Greenwald said.

I just don't see how they can do they if the guy hasn't been charged. It's not like a bag of weed. It's a USB stick.

at borders they can pretty much just take stuff generally

part of why they went out of business

they're still chill at barnes & noble tho

xpost dammit

tracer it's in one of the articles that less than 1% of airport detentions under the same provisions last for the full 9 hours

"stupid fuck-up by an asshole overstepping their bounds", which is the explanation for 99.9% of all airport detentions everywhere = this is the 0.1%

i would certainly be interested in knowing who gave the order

http://lh3.ggpht.com/-xB_tkBXOw00/UR1cnnmfB2I/AAAAAAAAa3g/VKgKt-edapc/Jack-Nicolson-you-cant-handle-the-tr.jpg?imgmax=800

turns out it was snowden

xp dammit

n/m cant handle it

This is a country, like the US, without a bill of rights.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_of_Rights_1689

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_Rights_Act_1998

this is almost certainly illegal, it's just it would take years for any actual ruling affirming it

"stupid fuck-up by an asshole overstepping their bounds", which is the explanation for 99.9% of all airport detentions everywhere = this is the 0.1%

OK sure, maybe, who knows, but Greenwald just goes ahead and says it like it's cast-iron truth that the (UK?) AUTHORITIES are sending a MESSAGE to JOURNALISTS to TREAD LIGHTLY. i mean really? is that really what the UKBA are doing? or are they just power-hungry bastards who thought they smelled a tip that confidential info might be crossing a border and figured they'd put the guy through the wringer? if they were the kind of illuminati that greenwald makes them out to be they'd have realized a mile away that giving dude this kind of treatment would reap nothing but shit

I dunno. I might be scared of dating a Greenwald in the future?

OK sure, maybe, who knows, but Greenwald just goes ahead and says it like it's cast-iron truth that the (UK?) AUTHORITIES are sending a MESSAGE to JOURNALISTS to TREAD LIGHTLY. i mean really? is that really what the UKBA are doing? or are they just power-hungry bastards who thought they smelled a tip that confidential info might be crossing a border and figured they'd put the guy through the wringer? if they were the kind of illuminati that greenwald makes them out to be they'd have realized a mile away that giving dude this kind of treatment would reap nothing but shit

― TracerHandVEVO (Tracer Hand), Monday, August 19, 2013 12:56 PM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

you are describing the same thing twice, only in the second scenario they aren't as good at it

the ukba being retards and the ukba having authorization from the home office or equivalent are not mutually exclusive possibilities

or are they just power-hungry bastards who thought they smelled a tip that confidential info might be crossing a border and figured they'd put the guy through the wringer?

How is this different than indeed sending a message to tread lightly?!

its the authorities fucking w greenwalds sex life for sure, open yr eyes

if they were 'just sniffing' it wouldn't take nine hours

I don't get why they're exchanging documents that way when public key cryptography exists. Good luck trying to break a 15360-bit RSA key. Literally you could just send stuff to each other via gmail, using your real name, with body text "here are some more secret documents from Snowden, enjoy!" It is dramatic though.

yeah the implication is the same xxp

i think the differentiation tracer is making is if it was the bad idea of some lower level functionaries or the plotting of higher level functionaries

greenwald has a hyperbolic prose style, everyone knows this, i haven't read his article about this anyway but the reasons for what happened are fairly obvious, if not provably so

which is imho a meaningful differince

higher level functionaries, with 98% certainty

there u go

and like, i dunno. come on. if greenwald likes to imagine that he's in a spy novel he should start acting like it. if you are in possession of info that multiple national governments have classified as confidental and detrimental to national security if disclosed, etc etc then you don't just get a magical shield with "journalist" written on the front of it that means nobody hassles you about it when you're crossing borders with it. maybe in greenwald's ideal world you do, but if anybody knows how far from that ideal the world we live in is, it should be greenwald. now, i think the snowden info is important and needs to be known by the public. but you have to be a little smarter than sending your extremely cute and relatively well-known boyfriend through several countries to act as a courier for information that you know is highly contentious!

which is imho a meaningful differince

― lag∞n, Monday, August 19, 2013 1:02 PM (1 minute ago)

the higherups who authorized it will never admit it though, it's the only inference to draw

If your boyfriend was detained the max limit without arresting him while you're publishing revelatory NSA stuff who ordered it is immaterial. Remember "denialibility"?

It's a meaningful difference, maybe, but the outcome is the same: you can get held for nine hours, your stuff taken away from you, and basic human rights don't count any more.

Whether it was Camerom himself or just two cops goofing about it important, I agree, but in both cases it is clear that as a journalist - or partner of, even - you aren't safe.

Tracer, I question whether David Miranda is cute.

you have to be a little smarter than sending your extremely cute and relatively well-known boyfriend through several countries to act as a courier for information that you know is highly contentious!

― TracerHandVEVO (Tracer Hand), Monday, 19 August 2013 18:03 (1 minute ago)

uhm that is the assumption the ukba or their superiors made

there is no suggestion his boyfriend was actually carrying state secrets on his wii or whatever

He's relatively well known for a photo in which he walks a dog in cargo shorts and flip-flops.

There's no way they would have even known who he was without someone at a reasonably high level telling them. The security services would almost certainly have been involved, I think.

It's a meaningful difference, maybe, but the outcome is the same: you can get held for nine hours, your stuff taken away from you, and basic human rights don't count any more.

― In the airplane over the .CSS (Le Bateau Ivre), Monday, August 19, 2013 1:06 PM (50 seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

when you cross borders you surrender a lot of rights, they can search you take yr stuff etc, you enter into this situation voluntarily via crossing the border, tho in this case he was just transferring at the airport which obvs complicates the situaiton

Pretty tacky dog imo

Yes. And what complicates it even more is that he is GG's partner.

Xp

There's no way they would have even known who he was without someone at a reasonably high level telling them. The security services would almost certainly have been involved, I think.

― Inte Regina Lund eller nån, mitt namn är (ShariVari), Monday, August 19, 2013 1:09 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

yeah he was for sure at least on some watch list, which is pretty dubious

Tracer, it sounds like you're saying this isn't dubious behavior because Greenwald (a) didn't figure this could happen and (b) writes hyperbolic prose.

naw hes saying greenwald is jumping to conclusions re the machinations that led to the dunbiousnes

and like, i dunno. come on. if greenwald likes to imagine that he's in a spy novel he should start acting like it.

I like to think that Miranda was a decoy and this was specifically to write hyperbolic prose about because he knew it would happen. The real docs went some secure digital way, as above.

I mean if it's a spy novel that's like Misdirection 101.

there were no real docs, its all a ruse in order to... blog