Irish politics discussion thread

I thought the coverage (TV & Radio) were fantastic! Papers, not so much sadly enough.

McDowell was brought down by his ego, pure and simple. He couldn't leave things alone, took everything personally (something well pointed out by that other egomaniac Adams during the debate) and couldn't help but preen near a camera. He was determined to lead the PDs and was blinded by his own greed to the fact that he was being handed a poisoned chalice. Truth be told, I think Harney acted in a mercenary manner but anyone could have seen the writing on the wall really!

What are your priorities Lara? My concern was that I wanted to remove the established old boys club for a new one (sigh). Also I wanted the Greens to have more of an effect, I would have been happier with them being bigger because while their policies are fairly limited I do want them at cabinet level for discussion. I hope that there will be one or two changes but I'm not sure that they'll really happen.

given the possible bump coming in the economy, i think consolidation was always going to be the order of the day coming up to this one.

is it possible FF knew it too, and played to it?

It's kind of an interesting one, because, as you say, the flight to the two main parties obviously means that the electorate is jittery about something, and the coming five years could possibly not be great for whoever's in government, so why do FF want it so bad right now, when possibly the smart thing to do would have been to soft pedal a bit and maybe let the others take over and screw up. Maybe FF reckons things aren't going to be so bad.

I am highly amused that the first business day after the election results and the Mahon tribunal is right back with the massive irregularities in Bertie's testimony regarding his money.

Quite right and I wonder what effect this commentary will have on the formation of our new government?

To be honest I think our often a-political electorate voted for the people who ran the best campaigns - on a local and national level. Those who didn't convince in the TV debates lost in waves. McDowell and Adams are most notable here.

I was in the UK and it was virtually impossible to find out what was going on. UK coverage = almost nil. Limited web coverage too.

McDowell did v badly on the debate 'tis true! I don't think it was the debate that threw it away for Adams, I think people got spooked by the idea of SF being in government! Lucinda Creighton totally proves your point though, she managed to get through on v little except fluff, that says she does seem really copped on and ready for what's next.

Mahon tribunal appears to have already messed up with their timing sadly enough. I don't really hold any faith in the tribunal system any more. It's not like I had much to begin with.

Everyone's expecting a bump, it's making houses cheaper but scares the shit out of me re. buying at the moment. All that crap about Stamp Duty didn't help.

SF was surely a long shot but Adams was terrible on economic policy, health service etc. It appeared that they (SF) had a single policy agenda.

Creighton is apparently brilliant, although I hate Enda Kenny too much to have voted FG. She's a non-practicing barrister. She and Varadkar seem to be the new breed of FG.

Is there any possibility of putting a stop to these tribunals? I predict a much more emphatic vote of togetherness if we were given that opportunity. And the savings could cover the cost of Stamp Duty!

Btw - I say buy anyway, if that's what you want. The Stamp Duty issue will be negated by price inflation for the next 1-2 years for definite.

UK coverage = almost nil. Limited web coverage too.

I thought it funny how the UK media were still running with the "Bertie to be thrown out of office by sulky electorate" story long after the polls were showing a bounceback for FF.

That's what I'm banking on Lara but thanks, always nice to get the reassurance.

Watching Questions and Answers last night. Poor Fiona O'Malley :(

Was she a bit sadface?

I think a bit shellshocked! She didn't really have anything except stock replies which really weren't that convinving. I just felt a bit sad thinking that for her it was much more than a party. Their biggest mistake was putting McDowell as leader, that killed the party. They were wondering last night if PDs could bounce back, O'Malley tried to point to FG as an example but it was pointed out that they were coming from 33, not 2. I think PDs be finished.

sorry did i just hear my radio right?

bertie's legal team has attacked the tribunal for interfering in the democratic process by investigating him publicly in the leadup to the formation of the new government.

can we really be letting this guy in again?

Yes. Him and his lovely grandkids: "No wait, don't look at my bank statements! Look at the babbies, aren't dey lovely? Ah bless Rocco JayZ Fifinoodle threw up! How can a corrupt politician have such lovely babbies?"

THE GREEN PARTY HAVE BETRAYED ME! Unbelievable. I wouldn't have voted for them had I know this was going to happen.

Also LOL x LOTS:

Mayo Fianna Fáil ‘in limbo’
Tuesday, 19 June 2007

M1ch43l Duffy and 41n3 Ry4n

THE honorary secretary of the Castlebar-based Johnny Jordan Cumann, Eamon Joyce, has this week stated that the comments made by An Taoiseach Bertie Ahern in relation to Beverley Flynn rejoining Fianna Fáil have left the party ‘in a state of limbo’ at grassroots level in the county.
Mr Joyce said the comments from the Taoiseach on RTÉ radio’s News at One were ‘totally unexpected’ and were in stark contrast to the sentiments expressed by headquarters before the recent General Election.
“We didn’t expect it all and we really fail to see where the Taoiseach is coming from on this one. As far as we can see, there is nothing but uncertainty surrounding Deputy Flynn at present. Her matters with RTÉ remain outstanding and now we have her constitutional challenge pending. God knows how long that is going to take,” said Mr Joyce, who said the hardworking members of the party now once again had to adopt a ‘wait-and-see approach’.
“What we really should be at is getting our house in order ahead of the local elections which are not that far away. In all honesty, it could still be two or three years before all the matters involving Deputy Flynn are resolved.”
Mr Ahern also said at the weekend that the process of Ms Flynn going back into Fianna Fáil would have to be resolved with her ‘local organisation’, but Mr Joyce said that clarification would have to be sought from party headquarters in relation to this process and also the process of re-admitting former members of Fianna Fáil who clearly canvassed for Ms Flynn before the General Election.
“After the Taoiseach’s comments, there are now people who feel they have legitimate claims to rejoin the party proper so we will have to seek clarification on this issue.”
Mr Joyce also refused to admit that allowing Deputy Flynn back into Fianna Fáil was the only way forward for the party in the county, as a Fianna Fáil TD would then be based in both Castlebar and Ballina.
“That all sounds great in a perfect world but unfortunately that’s not the case at present. We will just have to cross every bridge when we come to it and deal with the situations as they present themselves to us,” added Mr Joyce.
Mayo’s only elected Fianna Fáil deputy, Dara Calleary, also refused to herald the Taoiseach’s comments as solving all the problems faced by the party in the county. The newly-elected TD also felt that the comments were ‘a bit premature’.
“Once all the outstanding issues are resolved and there has been widespread consultation with the local organisation, it should be considered. I think the feeling on the ground is mixed and there will be some opposition to her being brought back in. The consultation needs to take in all of this,” said Deputy Calleary, stressing the importance of the local organisation in this process.
He also acknowledged that the dissolution of the Micheál Ó Moráin cumann in 2005 and the local political fall-out from that now seemed pointless.
In June 2005, Fianna Fáil National Secretary, Seán Dorgan, and Minister Noel Dempsey were involved in a number of meetings spearheading party re-organisation in the constituency. At the time the official party-line was that the Micheál Ó Móráin cumann was disbanded due to its continued support for Beverley Flynn, at that stage an Independent TD, having been expelled in 2004 after her failed Supreme Court appeal over the RTE libel case.
In an RTÉ interview last Friday, Bertie Ahern also said that he was very conscious that Ms Flynn was ‘a person of considerable ability’ and ‘we have a job to do in Mayo and in the west, we have to build up our strength as a party in the future’.
The Taoiseach went on to say: “I can’t give a commitment but I am in support of her in the party and I am also very conscious she is a person of considerable ability. I do believe that she had potential into the future to be a person that has capabilities of being an officer holder.”
Sources close to Ms Flynn feel that the Taoiseach’s comments mean he will consider her for a junior ministerial post when the current cabinet is re-shuffled two-and-a-half years into its term.

Constitutional challenge adjourned until July

Meanwhile, lawyers for RTÉ have described Deputy Flynn’s constitutional challenge as being a ‘litigious frolic in her own interest’.
The comments were made on Monday afternoon after lawyers for Ms Flynn outlined the grounds on which she wants to postpone bankruptcy proceedings being taken against her by RTÉ.
Her senior counsel, Gerard Hogan, said Ms Flynn was challenging the constitutionality of part of the 2002 Electoral Act, which disqualifies someone judged to be bankrupt from being a member of the Dáil.
He said she had raised major constitutional issues of public importance, and they were seeking an urgent, early hearing of the constitutional proceedings. The matter has been adjourned for two weeks.
Before the case was adjourned, Mr Hogan told Judge Elizabeth Dunne that Ms Flynn was served with a bankruptcy petition on June 2 after RTÉ failed to recover almost €3m in costs incurred by her in a failed libel action against the station.
He said she had already offered almost €600,000 to RTÉ, but that offer was rejected because RTÉ did not believe she had done all she could to discharge her debt.
The Electoral Act of 2002 provides that if a member of the Dáil is declared bankrupt and fails to discharge that bankruptcy within six months, they will be disqualified from membership of the Dáil.
Mr Hogan said the wishes of the electorate must be respected by the Oireachtas. He said there was inconsistency in the way members were disqualified.
Senior counsel for RTÉ, Cian Ferriter, said costs against Beverley Flynn had been assessed in September 2005 at more than €2m and interest was accruing at a rate of €500 a day.
And he said Ms Flynn had not paid a ‘red cent’ of that money. He said RTÉ had obligations to its licence payers and had to take this action for bankruptcy.
He said RTÉ had grave concerns about Ms Flynn’s efforts to postpone or adjourn the bankruptcy proceedings. He said she was embarking on litigation in her own interest to block the consequence she most feared, with complete disregard for RTÉ and its licence payers.
He said the constitutional proceedings were nakedly self-interested and would actively prejudice RTÉ. He added that RTÉ had had to bear the very costly consequences of her previous frolic and was now being asked to sit back while she embarks on another one.

Does anyone remember GREEN NIGHTMARE, the Sun's nightmare vision of what the UK would be like under a Green government?

Now that nightmare has come true in Ireland.

The worst thing is the silence.

When the Greens came for the motorists,
I remained silent;
I was not a motorist.

When they locked up the social smokers,
I remained silent;
I was not a social smoker.

When they came for the jaded journalists,
I did not speak out;
I was not a jaded journalist.

When they came for me,
there was no one left to speak out.

(sorry mr. Niemöller)

I suspect that FF have gone into government with the Greens in part to buy themselves some time with the Big Guns in Yerp who want to start fining us over our emissions.

(sorry mr. Niemöller)

This is your future.

Oh noes!

the greens are there for two main reasons-

they were cheap to get in, compared to labour.

they are soo fukn flakey that even people that should know better will be blaming them when things start to go wrong. see PD's for example.

any progress on house kv? where are you buying?

I bet the Greens will bring in a law saying that everyone has to live in TEEPEES.

Don't start, I need to find and be in by first of october. I don't think that'll be happening though! Yay for sympathetic uncles!

It's not so good darraghmac, I can't really get into it which is v bad. Also this whole thing about the stamp duty has fecked me up quite badly re. being willing to pay it in the first place so I was hoping to jump over other people. Looking at Crumlin, Inchicore, Stoneybatter and anywhere I can get. I don't want a flat and those areas have older houses that seem fairly solid. Are you an owner or looking at the moment?

Greens will be destroyed by FF. It's what they deserve imho.

not an owner, have quarter share in family home where i'm currently staying with one of my brothers.

wouldn't buy anywhere near me at the moment, rural houses and smaller towns won't be worth shite in three or four years, as far as i can see.

i see tradesmen are all over the meedja in the last week or two crying about the slow down. boo fukn hoo you bloodsuckin fucks..

OTM!

Nice one re. quarter share. Now if only he could be persuaded to marry... Meath will always stay pretty hot I'd say, Wicklow and environs could be very surprisingly boomy-y.

I've been wary of commuter belts (like navan road etc and beyond to the west) since the start: I can't drive! Also I felt that there was no way in hell there would be a proper infrastructure in place. Years later I am being proven right. Yay me, boo people getting hit for difference.

i think the greater dublin area (wherever you consider that to be yourself) is going to be fine- demand will be strong there for a long time yet.

a decent public transport (esp rail) network would help keep things strong for the forseeable future, but sure hey, anyone could tell you that.

not really nice one re quarter share, it was inherited. and he's not getting married until he learns to wash up after himself.

Oh man, sorry.

Yeah, railways would be good if it weren't for the fact that every one of our fancy new transport systems bottlenecks at some point or another. There really is no smooth-flow plan so far as I can tell.

It's not so bad though, if I could get within cycling distance of city centre would be great!

everywhere is within cycling distance, wimp.

My God, it's like my father has found ILX!

everywhere is within cycling distance, wimp.

I for one salute our new Green Party overlords.

they wouldn't have allowed bernard manning, for a start.

DV could be on to something. Do you have the inside track on that darraghmac, or should I say Green Party member #666???

ha! green party cadidate for my constituency was a stoner sk8er boi student. not my first choice.

i voted for Enda, cos he's actually a very nice man in person. and i wanted strolling access to the taoiseach.

Enda seems alright, too much of a wimp to be presidential in the way in which he was trying to sell himself!

didn't get dirty enough in the run up. hope he's learned his lesson.

You think that he'll try for leader again at the next election??? Come on, it'll be Lucinda Creighton for sure!

i have never heard of all these FG'ers called Lucinda Creighton. enda gets another shot without a doubt.

Who knows, it's not like he did a bad job at all. They made the most gains after all and that can hardly have been in spite of him! LC is the young lady who is definitely being groomed as a Mary Harney. She is also orange.

Apologies for comments on five words thread, I'm done.

no bother.

Trevor Sargent has quit. Will the PDs keep going do you think?

Had v bitter conversation with friend last week about Labour. Appears there is great disillusionment within the ranks.

That hoor Gormley's now leader of the Greens. Why did I even bother :(

why, were you hoping that Patricia McKenna would get in and stamp out the scourge that is vaccination and water fluridation?

Some have said that the government might not have a majority in the Seanad after the elections next week. This could threaten the very foundations of the state.

Ha ha no... I'm just still very disappointed with the way things went. I don't think I would have voted Green had I known. Ach, of course I would! It's a pity though, I had hoped that they would be an alternative rather than just cosy up immediately! What's the story re. Seanad and collapse of Ireland as we know it?

when the two Houses are divided against each other, only civil war can be the result.

Ah FFS! At least I don't have a brother to be fighting against. Maybe an elder sister. Oh jesus, I'm dead in that case :(

I wonder who would win a Dáil v. Seanad Civil War? The Dáil is bigger, of course, but the Seanad would be able to mobilise NUI engineering graduates into squads of fedaykin death commandos.

Dail has better bar = more beserkers = higher kill rate = teh winnah!!11!

The Dáil and Seanad share the same bar.

Oh noes! I thought they were seperate because of the whole smoking in the pub thing! Hmmm. Well I suppose it could all be Gangs of New York face off on merrion row! Isn't Seanad full of old people? One kick to hip and down a beating they slip. Needs work but it's roughly okay...

i think tbh thats ungenerous

imo they distanced themselves clearly from it as soon as it became clear it was arising and lost votes as a result

i think all three main parties sent out a few "firmer on shoring up the system" messages throughout the election

Yeah I am trying to work out how the vote was so limp from them when they’ve been hammering housing as a message forever & it was voters top concern

idk was it limp they shed racists and kept what might have been expected

none of the three leading parties had stunning results (ff may yet based on seats/transfers) and each might be satisfied

sf remain by some distance the main party of opposition they dont imo want to be anything but or they would actually produce some feasible policy

interest now lies in whether lab/sd think its better to challenge sf as the opposition or try to get into govt as a bloc (which doesnt really look feasible, either way- too many seats for what ff/fg need which means demands would be too high, and chance they just lose out as the customary buffer next time)

intriguing as to whether it pushes the three centre left opposition parties together but that wouldnt really be what lab/sd are known for nor is it really convincing that sf are an ideological match for anyone, really

Guns & roses dream slipping away

sd and labour singing if i dont have youewew to each other