Irish politics discussion thread

yeah it doesn't seem to me that conservative politics in ireland splits along gender lines, not at all. also it's not as if someone has a duty to be have certain beliefs just because they're part of a certain group.

Ive a problem with you singling out a dr as if a member of any partic professional group has a duty to hold particular beliefs

Neither harris nor varadkar to the fore in the debate like creighton is, i dont even know varadkars position.

FG as a party will be voting strongly in favour of the changes

Plenty are happy with the status quo, its only quite a small section making this a leaving-the-party issue.

Varadkar got in hot water in 2010 for saying he would be opposed to abortion in most cases, including rape.

His original comments

The conservative TD and medical doctor said he would “not be in favour of abortion” and, although he is not religious, he would “accept a lot of Catholic social thinking”.

In 1992, the Supreme Court ruled in the X case that a woman had a right to an abortion if there was “a real and substantial risk” to her life. Mr Varadkar said: “The only thing that would be a grey area is if there’s a genuine threat or risk to the life of the mother.”

But he said he wouldn’t be in favour of legalising abortions for victims of rape: “I wouldn’t be in favour of it in that case, and, you know, first of all, it isn’t the child’s fault that they’re the child of rape.”

“How would that work practically? Would someone have to prove that they’ve been raped? I think where that’s been brought in in countries it has more or less led to abortion on demand,” he said in an interview with the Sunday Independent magazine. “You can say the same thing about disabled children. You know, some people would make that argument in favour of abortion. It’s not their fault they’re disabled. I wouldn’t be in favour of it in those circumstances either.”

He's still saying things like

A new referendum removing suicide as a grounds for abortion would also have to include other issues, said Minister for Transport Leo Varadkar.
He said he did not believe it would be possible to vote a third time on the issue without asking questions on allowing terminations on the grounds of rape, alleged rape, incest, the health of the mother or in the case of a foetus incompatible with life.

The only difference in their views is that Varadkar is canny enough to couch his views in more subtle language now and not attack Enda/James Reilly as Creighton has done.

feck, lost thread and forgot til now thanks for posting

fair enough about varadkar's quote, but that's a good while back and he's not been at the fore of any anti-bill discussion of late as such iirc? i mean, i actually agree with him on the latter paragraph, but i'm assuming he was trying to scaremonger in forcing the issue. whether or not he's afraid of upsetting the leadership or not, tbh i'm not bothered by. i mean, i agree with the concerns of the independents that are voting against, but if they can't see their way to supporting this as the best measure they're going to get right now, then i think they've no business wielding the power they do. (i'm willing to give them the BOD that they know their vote isn't important in getting this over the line but it still grates).

mulherin will vote for in line with whip.

peter mathews speaking on this went so far over the line it was simply fucking incredible.

He's stayed away from the forefront. I read a recentish article in the Times that reckoned Creighton's actions have relegated her to the backbenches, whereas Varadkar will be very much a part of future plans. He clearly, as per the second quote, disagrees just as she does, but he took so much heat for the first quote before he was in government and before Savita, that it seems obvious to me that his views haven't changed, but his willingness to stick his neck out for them has.

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/crunch-time-for-lucinda-creighton-1.1454303

Anyway, that Tom Barry, eh?

Wasnt it fuckin incredible, saw it live and promptly assumed it was the hour and a crumb of cheese

Ha. My auld fella was so disgusted he took to Twitter to share his feelings on the matter. He's apologised already, though the party trundled out a dreadful attempt beforehand.

FG:

"It was a piece of silliness between two people who happen to be friends.

“I've spoken to the female TD involved and she is not really offended. She saw it for what was, in the moment, just a piece of silliness," he said.

It’s been described in Fine Gael circles as “horseplay”.

Tom Barry:

"What I did last night was disrespectful and inappropriate. I have apologised to Áine Collins and she graciously and immediately accepted my apology. No excuses I just shouldn't have done it."

Havent even bothered my arse this evening tbh. Anyone?

So. That was interesting. I'm unconvinced it took an all-nighter as it wasn't urgent and the whole Barry thing is mortifying. This whole thing with the Senate between the odd statements from the anti side, the lack of presence on the pro side and Norris meltdown it's all a bit odd.

Still don't think it should go though based on current arguments.

is it not enough or is it too much iyo?

just watching week in politics now.

I think it has a place for discussion but I don't know about free elections or otherwise. Let it be like a council of elders but I would prefer not to let them vote. Out of touch generally is the impression I always get.

So are td's though, in the main.

No point to an upper house without vote/veto. And i can't ever decide if a vetoing upper house is to be welcomed or not, given that it's usually less democratic than the lower (for good and ill).

Expert non-elected committees with power and independence might be an interesting thought experiment, but how to recruit and ensure untaintedness? idk.

please please tell me that i did not just see a man referred to as a negroid in today's mirror.

i mean it's there but please it's neighbour autocorrected or something equally implausible but preferable to wtf

Irish Daily Mirror ‏@IrishMirror 3h
We apologise for any offence caused as a result.

Irish Daily Mirror ‏@IrishMirror 3h
An automated spellcheck for a misspelling of the word,”neighbour” generated the word “Negroid” as a correct option and this was not spotted.

Irish Daily Mirror ‏@IrishMirror 3h
Mr Emuobo was a neighbour who came to the aid of the family. However, there was an error in production.

Irish Daily Mirror ‏@IrishMirror 3h
Yesterday's report on the death of Andrea Grazsiova accidentally contained an offensive term in attributing a quote to Mr Enoma Emuobo.

What fuckin spellcheck jumps to negroid fuck off

Should have just blamed it on a racist work experience kid. Nobody is going to believe the DYAC defence.

why were u reading the daily mirror

Eh disclosure a fella at work asked me what a negroid was

lawl

tbfttl he was disgusted after

tiocfaidh ar la la la la laaaaaa

cavan siege, anyone? media blackout observed, how do we feel about this type of thing etc

aldo

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/cork-man-succeeds-in-having-bail-varied-to-attend-hurling-final-1.1518416

wtf

also

Re: The Indonesian boy band

Comment:

Two Indonesian one in de head

A+

fg rebels have made a move?

http://cf.broadsheet.ie/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/reform.jpg

good to see Doyler taking an interest

hey, if you don't 'do' politics.....

"Serving the people of" = feck the rest of the country.

Good old Fidelma, she's figured out the twitterbox. Or at least an intern has. Her passwords are probably "12345" or "password" on everything. That's all I can believe after the whole "rape on Facebook thing".

Budget bantz starting up in earnest

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BA-g8YYPKVo&feature=youtube_gdata_player

A debate would be fun though. A pity End's not up for it.

yeah i prob amnt gonna vote with him on abolishing the upper house, but a debate would def help. posters are awful, really poor SAVE 20M LESS POLITICIANS jesus lads that's pretty fucking cheap stuff

budget? there'll be plenty of debate on it, i think the things they've been softening up for this past three years are coming though- means testing across the board on benefits like medical card and child benefit (can't quite recall did they even get this in last year or not?)

lord knows where else 3bn is coming from tho- surely not income tax (tho labour might press and get some level of higher-income hit perhaps) and fg aren't likely to touch corporation tax without trading some serious horseflesh with europe first

interestign arithmetic to follow imo

I thought the medical card was means tested already.

yeha sorry, i meant for the seniors- they tried to push that in under FF but there was uproar, i don't think it's been revisited yet (though i could be mistaken) but it will surely be one of the more acceptable pots to dip into if there's another 3bn to come

there's another thought- i haven't been following too closely- what proportion of the 3bn swing might come from increased income, i wonder.

Maybe they could reintroduce that old favourite, VAT on children's shoes and clothes.

if need be it'll go on indirectly

the relevant article on the budget mix on the irishtimes site is redirecting to a livestream of the dail protest- i wonder if they've been hacked or is it a blunder

Among the groups present are Anti-Eviction Ireland, Pensioners Against Cuts, Irish Republican Voice and the People’s Assembly, which consists of trade union, civil society and political organisations.

Ahead of the protest, People Before Profit Alliance TD Richard Boyd Barrett,

the motleyest of crus

http://cdn3.independent.ie/irish-news/article29292454.ece/ALTERNATES/h342/NWS_20130524_APO_011_27708446_I1.JPG

http://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/ireland-exits-recession-in-second-quarter-1.1533143

http://irishnewsreview.files.wordpress.com/2012/06/noonan.jpg

http://cf.broadsheet.ie/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/pearse-doherty.png

http://s2.thejournal.ie/media/2011/03/PA-10270391-310x415.jpg

kill em boys

kill em

Today heard protestors described as "vermin". Depressing.

Leave kids money alone. Hike up tax on GTAV and consoles. We'll have 3bn in a week.

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/use-of-martin-luther-king-quote-on-uvf-mural-perverse-1.1537304

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/sep/22/140000-found-bath-property-tom-mcfeely

discuss

Today heard protestors described as "vermin". Depressing

i'd reserve fairly strong terms for some of the groups involved, in private discussion anyway

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/telling-women-to-be-careful-gets-men-off-the-hook-1.1536337

jfc what has happened the IT under the new guy, it is just woeful

i agree with that article, dmac