You Want Superman Revamp? [Also the Man of Steel (2013) thread]

waid's otm about the build-up being missing. superman being unconcerned with all the people dying is a misstep not because "thats not superman" but just because its a big missed opportunity to make what's happening matter - it's such a no-brainer to milk 'superman frantically trying to save lives/prevent destruction' to make for a more exciting/engaging seqeuence, along with making it seem like the character actually has convictions or possesses any humanity

would've accepted kryptonianity

H4a otm

waid's otm about the build-up being missing. superman being unconcerned with all the people dying is a misstep not because "thats not superman" but just because its a big missed opportunity to make what's happening matter - it's such a no-brainer to milk 'superman frantically trying to save lives/prevent destruction' to make for a more exciting/engaging seqeuence, along with making it seem like the character actually has convictions or possesses any humanity

― i wanna be a gabbneb baby (Hungry4Ass), Thursday, June 27, 2013 5:18 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark

ya exactly. plus supes' dean scream just means nothing if we have no idea what his moral code is supposed to be.

(i'm still stuck on pops kent being all "mayyyybeeeee" when young clark asked him if he should have let the bully kid die)

i thought pa's mixed signals were more sympathetic in context than in the trailer, but I think having those random flashbacks only made supes' evolution even muddier

well if i were pa kent i'd be a bit more like "couldn't you have saved him in a less obvious way, doofus?"

also the idea that superman would let someone die to protect his identity is just like, so ridiculously against any idea of superman i could possibly imagine, even if it's a gritty new interpretation. i dunno it's just fucked up

I get the idea that this Pa Kent is supposed to be principled and admirable but kind of a dick and selfishly protective - like humanity itself from Supes' POV. Of course, Snyder/Goyer's way too hamfisted to pull it off so we get a bunch of fragments that don't really add up. Gotta say, iirc you were ok with the movie where Superman would owe child support if the mom knew his government name, so I'm surprised you're this up in arms about it.

Pa Kent chose to die in the tornado because he wasn't attracted to Ma Kent anymore

also gambling debts

Pa Kent went out like a fucking champ, I mean how do stay so stoic in winds that speed

(i'm still stuck on pops kent being all "mayyyybeeeee" when young clark asked him if he should have let the bully kid die)

― we're up all night to get (s1ocki), Thursday, June 27, 2013 6:28 PM (24 minutes ago) Bookmark

when that happened in the trailer i was so sure it was gonna be an out of context thing and in the real scene costner goes "maybe... but blah blah" and delivers some moral lesson. nope, just maybe let them die

i didnt exactly mind the message behind it but it felt like a contrived way to set up this ~inner struggle~ w/i clark that just didnt really play

(i'm still stuck on pops kent being all "mayyyybeeeee" when young clark asked him if he should have let the bully kid die)

― we're up all night to get (s1ocki), Thursday, June 27, 2013 5:28 PM (31 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

don't save that kid, because then people will know who you are, and they'll try to capture and probe you and stuff, even though you're superman and they couldn't actually do any of that stuff if you didn't want it to happen. also people may be weirded out that there is life on other planets.

i love that pa kent goes out saving a dog. nicely sets up the sequel.

http://images6.fanpop.com/image/photos/32500000/Superman-Superdog-krypto-the-superdog-32551983-3505-3554.png

IMO dialogue woulda been better if Pa Kent said: "And I'm very sad about that. But some folks are lucky...and some ain't"

strangely pa kent's philosophy kind of dovetails with general zod's.

they should have both been played by kevin costner.

apparently a lot of people like the movie's flashback structure and dig that it doesnt draw out his childhood, but it didnt work for me - feel like just keeping the whole thing linear would've been better, let it build, let it feel like a real journey where we get to know him along the way instead of this awkward fragmented thing about an anguished living ken doll

Saw a little of TDKR this morning on HBO and man, that really was a worse film on a lot of levels (you wanna talk about a hero going against his own aesthetic, how about a guy who briefly leaves retirement, decides he's avenged his parents plenty and then runs off for a sex vacation with a cat burglar). But if anything it reminded me that Man Of Steel 2 might actually be an even more turgid mess if they ignore the lukewarm response (Man Of Steel's 2nd weekend percentage drop was almost as bad as Green Lantern!) and feel like they have to keep the serious-face.

I'm also growing tired of intense, moody music playing underneath the entire movie instead of just appropriate moments, but I suppose we have Nolan to blame for the advancement of that (though I remember bitching when The Good Shepherd did that too).

I get the idea that this Pa Kent is supposed to be principled and admirable but kind of a dick and selfishly protective - like humanity itself from Supes' POV. Of course, Snyder/Goyer's way too hamfisted to pull it off so we get a bunch of fragments that don't really add up. Gotta say, iirc you were ok with the movie where Superman would owe child support if the mom knew his government name, so I'm surprised you're this up in arms about it.

― da croupier, Thursday, June 27, 2013 7:00 PM (10 minutes ago) Bookmark

stop pretending we're all 100% okay with everything that happened in superman 2 and that that means something

im still not okay with supes turning back time in 1!!!

he's talking about Superman Returns, but idk who was defending that

not to mention supes' secret "forgetful kiss" power

oh ya. i haven't seen 2 in forever. but ya tho i liked SR at the time i tried to watch it recently and i could not figure out what the hell i was thinking

haha yeah feel free to rip on Man Of Steel as long as you're not defending SR

superman turning things back in time annoyed me because it fucked with the mood of the film. I love how Supes 1 started with its deliberately modest pace for the origin story, sped up considerably with its goofy, comic charm in the middle, and then became unexpectedly intense at the end with Luther's plan. Superman's "yell" when Lois died was primal and real and came from somewhere. Then he gets out of it by doing someting so cheap like going back in time (which is ethically suspect too - why wouldn't he just do that when anybody died tragically) and it completely took me out of the movie.

Still better than this though, but nothing beats Supes II, flawed as it is.

Has any other film done a variation on turning the Earth in reverse to go backwards in time? I mean it's incredibly idiotic from a logical standpoint but it's also insanely fantastical and it seems like the only time that has ever been in a movie. I have to tip my hat to the lunacy and just go with it!

The closest thing I can think of is in Starcrash where The Emperor of the First Circle of the Universe orders his starship to halt the flow of time. When something like that happens, it's almost like getting a Christmas present out of nowhere.

'going back in time' is bad enough but doing it by spinning the world the wrong way is something else
lol xp

the turning-back-the-earth thing was patently ridiculous even to 6 yo me. but it hardly ruins the film. and really its not that far off from actual silver age superman shenanigans

the secret identity joke was a lot better handled in the Reeve series too as those coke bottles did kind of make his face look wider and different, plus he wore his hair different. Cavill put on his glasses and just looked like the same sexy dude with glasses.

it seems like the only time that has ever been in a movie

well, would you prefer the "slingshot around the sun"

I don't give a fuck about it from a 'lol science' perspective, just a 'man are you kidding me' perspective. especially given that he only did it to save a woman he wanted to sleep with.

Reeve is also a good enough actor to physically play Clark and Superman very, very differently

yeah even as a kid I loved that

strangely pa kent's philosophy kind of dovetails with general zod's.

― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Thursday, June 27, 2013 7:07 PM (11 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

they should have both been played by kevin costner.

― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist),

omg get to work photoshopping

Reeve is also a good enough actor to physically play Clark and Superman very, very differently

yeah we discussed upthread how awful it was that Reeves couldn't muster, like, one-tenth of the skill, wit, and charm in other roles.

btw Lenny Luthor - worst Supes film character ever? Y or Y

oh I think Reeves does pretty well in Deathtrap, I think it's called...?

just think of bloody Clark Kent in the deserted FOS (lit like an afterhours singles bar) in Supes II shouting FAAAAAATHHHERRR

honestly thought cavill was fine in this - sold individual moments of drama and humor well enough that I blame Snyder/Goyer for any failure to coalesce. only actor who didn't seem to be giving it their best was Adams, who admittedly was given some of the worst lines (the dick measuring contest, "i have a pulitizer!") etc.

fishburne too was a little clock-in

those newsroom scenes seem like they were cobbled together as an imitation of the originals. and why were we supposed to care about that one intern that was stuck and Perry was saving when we got to spend all of two minutes with her?

That half of Fishburne's lines were the same, tired platitudes every other character was given as dialogue didn't help matters.

yeah in almost all of his other movies (i'll partially except deathtrap and street smart) reeve seems profoundly uncomfortable

i didn't think cavill was bad at all, but the role was kind of incoherent as written

i can't except street smart since it's imposssible to buy him outsmarting morgan freeman

He does what's required in Street Smart, I guess? Morgan Freeman is legit dangerous, and there's little tension between them.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-qxsv5PetQQ4/TgT2sqsEBtI/AAAAAAAAIZQ/ayh7s2z9Bac/s1600/Clark_Kent_All-Star_Superman_003.jpg

Good examples of the differences here http://charactermodel.tumblr.com/post/16213440172/clark-kent-by-frank-quitely-all-star-superman

Probably a bit too subtle for this film, just like Pa Kent "maaaaaaybe". Although at least he was willing to die like a chump for his beliefs, I guess

i guess i'm alone in that i dug Pa Kent's "maybe..."

but then that kinda went out the window when he died to save the family dog

The dumbass didn't even realise Clark could have done that shit at walking pace and nobody would have been any the wiser

I couldn't work out if he really wanted Clark to hide his powers or was just being all "I'LL take care of this" like a dick

NOLAAAAAAAAAAAAAAN