Irish politics discussion thread

You think, DV? It feels to me that they are crowing victoriously. I also wonder whether legislation will ever be used if it successfully passes.

The banks thing... If only they'd kept quiet rather than ruining it for all of us (NB this is a joke).

http://www.thejournal.ie/admobile-company-drops-youth-defence-after-rape-crisis-incident-969637-Jun2013/

Youth Defence, meanwhile, said that they had not instructed the driver to park on Leeson Street.
“Youth Defence did not instruct the mobile ad to park anywhere on Leeson Street or on any other street for that matter,” said Clare Molloy who added that the furore was a “horrible and exploitative effort by abortion campaigners to use rape victims to attack the pro-life message”.

LOL whut?!

also, went on YD's twitter just there and saw they'd retweeted one R1ch4rd W4gh0rn3 and couldn't stop laughing. He was a cunt in college and he's an even bigger cunt now.

I mean they had seen some of the vans to lodge in their heads. Are you telling me choices of location weren't already known?

(xxpost)

pointing to the van across the road - sorry i mean a horrible and exploitative effort by abortion campaigners to use rape victims to attack the pro-life message

Its kind of awesome (literal sense) how mobilised the anti choice side are here. Unless im badly misreading the actual numbers strongly pro/anti in the country, the % of the latter logging in, writing letters and marching would be impressive on a purely political org angle.

Thankfully they're being ignored, obv. But the fuss FG have to be seen to make over dropping the likes of creighton and mulhern is a bit idk unseemly.

What are the thoughts on two of the brightest and youngest and most female of our national reps considering catholic ideology a fundamental input into their professional decisions btw? I find it profoundly depressing and it makes me more certain than ever that we need to look at the screens and filters in place before the electorate gets a candidate.

How many TDs in Dail Eireann are actively pro-choice? I never heard much from the pro-choice side when I was at home. I did, however, see anti-choice demonstrators show up in Tullamore with their mangled foetus literature more than once. How many of them put their views on choice in their manifestos? The issue has been ignored so long - 2002 aside - that it's hardly been the kind of opinion you put in your campaign material. I don't see how them being female - wtf at "most female" btw - is especially relevant to the issue. As far as they're concerned, it's something they don't need, so why should other women?

I mean, as far as I'm concerned, I view it the same as chemists who don't want to prescribe morning-after pills, or those B&B owners who didn't want to rent to a gay couple. No place for it.

You must forgive my playful turn of phrase or we shan't get on im afraid

Point being that one hopes for a modernisation of political decisionmaking process, and one would hope that this would be accelerated by the inclusion of more input from younger td's, and that it would be hoped, in the context of a historically-catholically-dominated state still labouring under dev's constitution in many ways, that younger female reps might be mord than proportionately a force for change on issues exactly like this?

Surely that's not objectionable? The whole point of a dail not populated by greying men is very much that we get debates and viewpoints and votes different from those of greying men? If our younger politicians (of either gender) are only getting in after a screening process to ensure compatibility with the social conservative ethos of strict adherence to the doctrine of the church (and to a far greater extent than is seen in the general population) it's a serious problem.

Yr point about actively pro-choice td's is taken, obv lab and sf seem inclined that way, and tbh v few fg ppl seem actively exercised either way (its an eu necessity, etc) but yes it's obv that v few want to be seen to be aggressively pro-choice. Daly v much to the fore in arguing for choice on its own merits i spose.

why are you focusing on "greying men" and not young men though

Because of the posts i just made on the subject just there

I have a problem with you singling out young female politicians only, as though Simon Harris and Leo Varadkar - a fucking qualified doctor, no less - haven't been equally disgusting. Plenty of people are happy with the status quo, and would probably restrict travel to the UK for abortion if they could. Why is it in any way shocking that representatives of Fine Gael, in a historically conservative country, are opposed to this? Things don't change that quickly. I'm several years younger than these women and though I am pro-choice, lots of people my age would hold similar views. It's not surprising to me in the least.

yeah it doesn't seem to me that conservative politics in ireland splits along gender lines, not at all. also it's not as if someone has a duty to be have certain beliefs just because they're part of a certain group.

Ive a problem with you singling out a dr as if a member of any partic professional group has a duty to hold particular beliefs

Neither harris nor varadkar to the fore in the debate like creighton is, i dont even know varadkars position.

FG as a party will be voting strongly in favour of the changes

Plenty are happy with the status quo, its only quite a small section making this a leaving-the-party issue.

Varadkar got in hot water in 2010 for saying he would be opposed to abortion in most cases, including rape.

His original comments

The conservative TD and medical doctor said he would “not be in favour of abortion” and, although he is not religious, he would “accept a lot of Catholic social thinking”.

In 1992, the Supreme Court ruled in the X case that a woman had a right to an abortion if there was “a real and substantial risk” to her life. Mr Varadkar said: “The only thing that would be a grey area is if there’s a genuine threat or risk to the life of the mother.”

But he said he wouldn’t be in favour of legalising abortions for victims of rape: “I wouldn’t be in favour of it in that case, and, you know, first of all, it isn’t the child’s fault that they’re the child of rape.”

“How would that work practically? Would someone have to prove that they’ve been raped? I think where that’s been brought in in countries it has more or less led to abortion on demand,” he said in an interview with the Sunday Independent magazine. “You can say the same thing about disabled children. You know, some people would make that argument in favour of abortion. It’s not their fault they’re disabled. I wouldn’t be in favour of it in those circumstances either.”

He's still saying things like

A new referendum removing suicide as a grounds for abortion would also have to include other issues, said Minister for Transport Leo Varadkar.
He said he did not believe it would be possible to vote a third time on the issue without asking questions on allowing terminations on the grounds of rape, alleged rape, incest, the health of the mother or in the case of a foetus incompatible with life.

The only difference in their views is that Varadkar is canny enough to couch his views in more subtle language now and not attack Enda/James Reilly as Creighton has done.

feck, lost thread and forgot til now thanks for posting

fair enough about varadkar's quote, but that's a good while back and he's not been at the fore of any anti-bill discussion of late as such iirc? i mean, i actually agree with him on the latter paragraph, but i'm assuming he was trying to scaremonger in forcing the issue. whether or not he's afraid of upsetting the leadership or not, tbh i'm not bothered by. i mean, i agree with the concerns of the independents that are voting against, but if they can't see their way to supporting this as the best measure they're going to get right now, then i think they've no business wielding the power they do. (i'm willing to give them the BOD that they know their vote isn't important in getting this over the line but it still grates).

mulherin will vote for in line with whip.

peter mathews speaking on this went so far over the line it was simply fucking incredible.

He's stayed away from the forefront. I read a recentish article in the Times that reckoned Creighton's actions have relegated her to the backbenches, whereas Varadkar will be very much a part of future plans. He clearly, as per the second quote, disagrees just as she does, but he took so much heat for the first quote before he was in government and before Savita, that it seems obvious to me that his views haven't changed, but his willingness to stick his neck out for them has.

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/crunch-time-for-lucinda-creighton-1.1454303

Anyway, that Tom Barry, eh?

Wasnt it fuckin incredible, saw it live and promptly assumed it was the hour and a crumb of cheese

Ha. My auld fella was so disgusted he took to Twitter to share his feelings on the matter. He's apologised already, though the party trundled out a dreadful attempt beforehand.

FG:

"It was a piece of silliness between two people who happen to be friends.

“I've spoken to the female TD involved and she is not really offended. She saw it for what was, in the moment, just a piece of silliness," he said.

It’s been described in Fine Gael circles as “horseplay”.

Tom Barry:

"What I did last night was disrespectful and inappropriate. I have apologised to Áine Collins and she graciously and immediately accepted my apology. No excuses I just shouldn't have done it."

Havent even bothered my arse this evening tbh. Anyone?

So. That was interesting. I'm unconvinced it took an all-nighter as it wasn't urgent and the whole Barry thing is mortifying. This whole thing with the Senate between the odd statements from the anti side, the lack of presence on the pro side and Norris meltdown it's all a bit odd.

Still don't think it should go though based on current arguments.

is it not enough or is it too much iyo?

just watching week in politics now.

I think it has a place for discussion but I don't know about free elections or otherwise. Let it be like a council of elders but I would prefer not to let them vote. Out of touch generally is the impression I always get.

So are td's though, in the main.

No point to an upper house without vote/veto. And i can't ever decide if a vetoing upper house is to be welcomed or not, given that it's usually less democratic than the lower (for good and ill).

Expert non-elected committees with power and independence might be an interesting thought experiment, but how to recruit and ensure untaintedness? idk.

please please tell me that i did not just see a man referred to as a negroid in today's mirror.

i mean it's there but please it's neighbour autocorrected or something equally implausible but preferable to wtf

Irish Daily Mirror ‏@IrishMirror 3h
We apologise for any offence caused as a result.

Irish Daily Mirror ‏@IrishMirror 3h
An automated spellcheck for a misspelling of the word,”neighbour” generated the word “Negroid” as a correct option and this was not spotted.

Irish Daily Mirror ‏@IrishMirror 3h
Mr Emuobo was a neighbour who came to the aid of the family. However, there was an error in production.

Irish Daily Mirror ‏@IrishMirror 3h
Yesterday's report on the death of Andrea Grazsiova accidentally contained an offensive term in attributing a quote to Mr Enoma Emuobo.

What fuckin spellcheck jumps to negroid fuck off

Should have just blamed it on a racist work experience kid. Nobody is going to believe the DYAC defence.

why were u reading the daily mirror

Eh disclosure a fella at work asked me what a negroid was

lawl

tbfttl he was disgusted after

tiocfaidh ar la la la la laaaaaa

cavan siege, anyone? media blackout observed, how do we feel about this type of thing etc

aldo

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/cork-man-succeeds-in-having-bail-varied-to-attend-hurling-final-1.1518416

wtf

also

Re: The Indonesian boy band

Comment:

Two Indonesian one in de head

A+

fg rebels have made a move?

http://cf.broadsheet.ie/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/reform.jpg

good to see Doyler taking an interest

hey, if you don't 'do' politics.....

"Serving the people of" = feck the rest of the country.

Good old Fidelma, she's figured out the twitterbox. Or at least an intern has. Her passwords are probably "12345" or "password" on everything. That's all I can believe after the whole "rape on Facebook thing".

Budget bantz starting up in earnest

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BA-g8YYPKVo&feature=youtube_gdata_player

A debate would be fun though. A pity End's not up for it.

yeah i prob amnt gonna vote with him on abolishing the upper house, but a debate would def help. posters are awful, really poor SAVE 20M LESS POLITICIANS jesus lads that's pretty fucking cheap stuff

budget? there'll be plenty of debate on it, i think the things they've been softening up for this past three years are coming though- means testing across the board on benefits like medical card and child benefit (can't quite recall did they even get this in last year or not?)

lord knows where else 3bn is coming from tho- surely not income tax (tho labour might press and get some level of higher-income hit perhaps) and fg aren't likely to touch corporation tax without trading some serious horseflesh with europe first

interestign arithmetic to follow imo

I thought the medical card was means tested already.

yeha sorry, i meant for the seniors- they tried to push that in under FF but there was uproar, i don't think it's been revisited yet (though i could be mistaken) but it will surely be one of the more acceptable pots to dip into if there's another 3bn to come

there's another thought- i haven't been following too closely- what proportion of the 3bn swing might come from increased income, i wonder.