Is rebellion possible?

My understanding is principal reduction for ppl in crisis xp

as much as I think the global summit party had its uses a decade ago I wonder about the efficacy of G8 actions today--it's not the same as WTO/FTAA stuff, and the TPP has successfully obscured itself enough that people aren't rowdying around it

I don't think bothering a bank until they decide x thousand dollars isn't worth this annoyance constitutes progress

The only way it isn't progress is if you work for the bank and have a vested interest in maintaining the status quo. If this boils down to "It's only one bank, you still can't change the system" then really why do anything at all? Why even have any laws?

hoos you see this? someone go throw something at a mcdonalds.

http://articles.philly.com/2013-06-17/news/40008232_1_debit-card-minimum-wage-fees

fuckers...

yes, just saw that. so mad.

unbelievable

presumably, the system saves the franchisee on payroll costs. JPM probably gives the "service" to the franchisee cheap or free knowing that they'll make money on the fees. The franchisee is basically selling its employees to a bank.

The customer-service end of banks is horrible (customers in this case being the people that use the bank mainly as a place to keep their money). It's basically like a pickpocket operation, they constant have their hands on your wallet, with one fee or another, all these extra little charges that they invoke because somehow it is legal, and the majority of people just say "Aw, fuck this!" and pay the fee and forget about it. Because what are you going to do? You can't change the banking system, and you can't change it politically, cos all those fuckers are best friends.

So you just pay the $30 fee that is invoked because your "Account must have a minimum of $1000" in it. You are being charged for being poor. Once this fee started popping up on my account and I brought it up with a teller. They offered to switch my account to a "Free Checking Account", which wouldn't charge me that fee. Was there any fee involved in switching from what I had to this account? No. Was there any difference between this type of account and the one I had, other than I was being charged $30 extra a month? No. These banks are nothing more than literal pickpockets.

So yeah, if you can get banks to stop a foreclosure, you are an effing hero.

jesus hellchrist

btw hurting et al this is keith ellison's thinking on principal reduction etc, and its the stuff that OOH-MN has helped bring to the fore:

Could you elaborate on your proposal for principal reduction?

Underwater mortgages are holding people in homes that they can’t leave. And if you can’t sell your house then you can’t go to the job across the nation that might pay more. This is cutting into families' discretionary income. And it's a drain on the economy. At the end of the day, we need people to be able to stay in their homes if they want to, and people must be able to sell their homes if they need to. Without writing down these mortgages, we’re going to be stuck. I encourage people who are in the housing movement to make a robust and directed demand at the administrator of the Federal Housing Finance Agency (FHFA) [to reduce mortgage principals].
How do you respond to those who say that principal reduction is unrealistic?

Banks have already been [writing down mortgages] in certain instances. There’s a lot of anecdotal evidence that plenty of writing down can be done. But here’s the other thing: Fannie and Freddie own or guarantee about 60 percent of the residential mortgages in the country. If they own them, they can write them down. That’s it. In the 1930s there was a precedent for this kind of action. At the end of the day, it is possible and it's the right thing to do. It’s just a political question as to whether we can muster the will to do it.
What impact do you think social movement groups organizing against foreclosures are making with respect to the Washington debate?
Advertisement

I think that they’re having an enormous effect. In fact, I don’t think we’d be anywhere close to doing anything without them. Clearly, the people are leading the politicians in this situation. And I’m so grateful to them. Without raising the public ire, we would not be able to make the forceful demands that we’re making now.

To be perfectly fair to members of Congress, they’ve been arguing with the Department of Housing and Urban Development and with FHFA for a long time. But the administrators listen to us and say, 'Yeah, yeah … right, Congressman.' Then they go on doing what they want to do.

Now, if these agencies have to start dealing with some street heat, they will see things differently. I think that heat is indispensable.

Sympathetic members of Congress have the power to draft, introduce, and vote on legislation. But leaders in the progressive community and in the housing movement have the ability to mobilize, educate, and organize all across America. We need each other to be successful.

it's not a bad idea but it is effectively a bailout

For whom, in what way?

for people w/ underwater mortgages, many of whom are not the poorest americans, by taxpayers

incidentally geithner pushed for this

Because what are you going to do?

um, not put your money in a bank

incidentally geithner pushed for this

― iatee, Tuesday, June 18, 2013 5:47 PM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

yeah, i recall that

so I mean 'should activists push for something even after the white house fully supports it and doesn't have the ability to change it'

cbo seems to suggest that principal reduction by FHFA would avoid enough defaults to make it worth the money

http://blogs.wsj.com/developments/2013/05/06/report-principal-forgiveness-could-reduce-costs-for-taxpayers/

well it seems to me this is why demarco's head rolled and and mel watt saddled up

well the white house supports torture, trial-less executions, and endless war, should activists just support those things too

adam bruneau are you even literate

well it seems to me this is why demarco's head rolled and and mel watt saddled up

his head hasn't rolled...

while we're at it can we get some loan forgiveness for student debt plz?

lol

I mean dude he was loudly called out for a particular policy position and he is being replaced by a stalwart advocate for that same position who loudly criticized him. It's no nixonian massacre, but that's not real opaque to me

hey les do credit card debt too plz

only when the senate sez so absent a recess appointment

xp

this isn't even the first time obama attempted to replace him

Yeah, I remember the other dude from like late 10, right? But this is precisely the sort of opportunity where grassroots power building and pressure application can come into play. Building a movement that makes it politically untenable to continue to oppose the change. We haven't done it yet, and obviously the ballot box is part of the fight, but I think we're working in this direction in the national level and trying to make the appropriate connections from the local upward.

(I don't believe it's a contradiction that I'm defending black blocs and arguing for the confirmation of Boss FHFA 10 posts apart, but, lol.)

well the problem is that the pressure needs to be applied to senate republicans in safe seats

it's like i said, i don't think this is an easy problem to solve. but i don't think it's unsolvable--it just takes hard work that's worth doing.

or, you know, a goddamn recess appointment

ps smash all authority

heya hoos, have you read Graeber's The Democracy Project yet? I was reading the bookforum review of it last night (which also featured David Harvey's more neomarxist-influenced Rebel Cities) and it seemed well worth reading. i'll take my answer off the air.

The wealthy and powerful certainly spend plenty of time and money to identify every lever of power and every avenue of influence they can use to pursue their goals. There is no contradiction between occupying public parks and banks or marching in the streets, and filing briefs with the SEC or lobbying Congress for friendly appointments in federal bureaucracies, if any of these steps can get you closer to your goals.

yep. it's always frustrating to see people arguing for one avenue over the other when they're both necessary for change. it seems like a common structure of a breakthrough on an issue is 1) tangible and growing public protests, 2) people with access to the current framework of the institution working on realistic alternative policies, and 3) a highly visible event or series of events - financial breakdown, a scandal, a disaster - that draws media and wider public attention to the issue.

There's no doubt in my mind that the big Bonus March on Washington DC during the Hoover administration was useful for pushing FDR into more radical actions when he took over in 1933.

ZS I haven't read Graeber's new one yet, though I've read a few reviews & am considering it. Trying to finish working my way through Black Flame first.

great article on Left Unity http://viewpointmag.com/2013/06/13/dead-generations-and-unknown-continents-reflections-on-left-unity/

yeah thats really really good imo

has anyone read this?

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/1016828_380734515371512_871868813_n.jpg

i have it but have not read it! i'm told it's good.

Sounds interesting. Is there any evidence of a genuine uptick in people moving "off the grid"? There was a pretty big movement toward that kind of living in the 70s too.

in general, people need to stop thinking about how hippies did things. cuz it seems like a rebuke or something. not you, hurting! just in general. like, people shouldn't try new approaches cuz people did something like that once and now look where we are.

i don't really understand what that post is saying, scott.

i just meant if you mention "living off the grid" a lot of people immediately tie it to 60s/70s/hippies/etc. and it doesn't have to be like that. or worse they tie it to militias/survivalists/cults. it doesn't have to be any of those things.

Living off the grid does require a broad skill set that replaces being plugged into systems that are self-managing. Acquiring that skill set doesn't have to happen all at once, if you don't dive straight into the deep end, but instead select skills you are interested in, one at a time, and learn them as you go along. A lot of the failures among hippies and back-to-nature types in the 70s, when this was big, was a failure to recognize how much they didn't know before they committed to the project. It's more sensible to ramp your way up to it slowly and intentionally.

I think that the "oh that's a 70s thing" comes largely from the widespread failure of most of the people who tried to live off the grid to stick with it.