Anticipating DOLLHOUSE

So anyway...is it true the episode that Joss intended to be the pilot won't be aired by the network?? This is becoming a habit with him...and could go a long way toward explaining why this first ep maybe felt cold or off or w/e.

I'm sympathetic to Joss's troubles with FOX, but I feel like someone needs to point out: The job of a show creator is to fight with a Network to have his vision prevail. It's not like he's the only person who struggles with Network oversight.

Should we read the pilot script and find out what Fox didn't like about it? Apparently it's already online...I dare you.

I can't find it.

The PDF is here, apparently. Warning: link leads directly to PDF.

...is there a reason I don't want to read this?

not casting an East Asian cast member on Firefly doesn't undermine the fictional argument

I dunno I remember it occurring to me at the time "where the hell are all the Asians in this future?"

It seems to me that if you're making the suggestion that East Asian culture has achieved dominance it might help your point to include an East Asian among your cast of characters. I guess you could argue that by omitting them from the cast it underlines the fact that cultural hegemony is so complete: look at all this Chinese stuff, and there aren't even any Chinese people up in this bitch!

Mordy: Is there? I dunno, I started it already? It's just considered polite to warn people when clicking a link is going to make them download something, although maybe I didn't phrase it correctly.

I'm sympathetic to Joss's troubles with FOX,

I don't follow Whedon minutiae at all, but is there a reason why he didn't go to HBO (or some other network that doesn't interfere as much) for this?

he probably did, they probably said no

^

I'm not sure a Whedon show would've worked on a cable network, mostly due to the budget issues for CGI, action scenes and a relatively large veteran cast. There are some basic cable shows that kind of do this but skimp on various aspects - one that does this well is Burn Notice - but I doubt Whedon would want to scale down.

That Racialicious post might be taking a bit farther than I would have, but you've got to admit the point is there - for a show that used a lot of Asian and Chinese cultural elements (a good thing) that there really weren't any Asian main characters in the show is kind of.. well... weak. All I can remember were basically nameless, lineless extras as background poor in the pilot.

One of the things that site talks about a lot is how the feminism and anti-racist circles are not nearly as united as one might think. That said, dropping Firefly after one episode because of this is pretty hasty.

I'm not sure a Whedon show would've worked on a cable network, mostly due to the budget issues for CGI, action scenes and a relatively large veteran cast.

Does Whedon have an automatic fan base that will watch anything he does? It seems like that would be a selling point.

So far this episode is better than the last one.

Does Whedon have an automatic fan base that will watch anything he does? It seems like that would be a selling point.

― Chris Barrus (Elvis Telecom), Tuesday, February 17, 2009 8:44 AM (4 days ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

not big enough i think

i gave up on this ep halfway through

TERRIBLE episode. It's only the second episode in and they're already riffing on The Most Dangerous Game? Bah...

Watching this after tonight's BSG and Terminator: TSCC episodes I'm shocked at just how amateur the acting and action editing is.

wow, completely dissenting opinion here. 'The Target' was SO MUCH BETTER than the episode they chose to run first, 'Ghost'.

Even after reading the explanations given by Whedon and Walden - basically, the FOX Co-Chair thought it was such an engaging and exciting script that the series should have a chance to build up to it. huh?! Whedon agrees and says that the idea for 'Ghost' just came to him first, so it ran first - i can't fathom why they didn't make this episode our intro to the world of 'Dollhouse.' this episode was violent, compelling, breathlessly paced, crammed with essential series elements and Whedon-esque wit, successfully sets up the Alpha story, introduces Boyd and the bonding process and (unlike the first episode) leaves you in extreme anticipation of what will happen next week.

even Dushku's acting seemed better. maybe that's because it was more demanding of extreme physicality than of emotional range. though i thought she did pretty well in the scenes with Boyd. more convincing than the hair-up/glasses-on now-play-smart gimimck of 'Ghost'.

i can forgive the MDG riff because the character was named Richard O'Connell. close enough.

-1 nerd point to s1ocki and HOOS - it got set up at FOX b/c ED had a deal at FOX and talked Whedon into doing something because she is his Bob DeNiro

I thought Target was much better than Ghost too. Definitely helped that for most of the episode Dushku was doing her typical, well-honed bad girl archetype, but I thought it highlighted Harry Lennix pretty well, too. It wasn't a perfect episode by any means, and not that original, but more than passable, I thought.

The weird thing is I'm pretty sure it was supposed to run as episode #5, but the network liked it so much they asked it to be bumped up.

I'm sure I'm the only one here, but I'm really starting to dig this show.

It's fun and interesting. Running pretty much as I'd expected - Job of the Week stuff is just okay or cheesy, when the show gets good it's those greater conspiracy/universe ideas (everyone's a robot!), deep back story character development, and those moments when characters actually get to act wacky or quip (like this week's when Sierra basically does a very amusing, generic Eliza Dushku impression) that's where this show is shining. In any case it probably won't get really good until the early "pilots" are out of the way.

I think it's getting better and better, and apparently next week Joss Whedon's vision for the show begins to show.

Dollhouse needs more Sierra.

Well, it looks like the show's actually started for real now. The audience-unfriendly, disturbing undertones of the show are finally coming to the forefront. (Also, damn the internet for spoiling the neighbor twist for me weeks ago.) I like the development, which was only slightly hinted at in earlier episodes, that this technology even existing has a major effect on the world, that this has become an Alias-level conspiracy and it looks like next week's episode and future episodes are going to deal with the ramifications of that and the effects on the Actives themselves.

My new girl has been pestering me about this thing, and I finally made it to the allegedly 'game changing' ep. 6.

I am so fucking totally done with crappy show now. I mean, the 'game changer' is that the conspiracy is bigger and deeper than we had previously been led to believe? Not, say, the regulars actually learned to act or the dialog suddenly started being worth acting well? Or the concept turned out to be more than just 'doe eyed cuties who kick ass and wear skimpy clingy outfits'?

I guess Patton Oswald wasn't totally intolerable, though.

haha glad to hear i didn't miss anything by quickly giving up on this

Caroline's backstory is majorly disappointing. Now that we know she was the naive sort of animal-rights activist who thinks videotaping critters in cages will bring about some kind of change, I think she's better off stripped of her personality. Or is this a deliberate character flaw, in the same vein as the ol' "lol buffy is dumb" jokes?

Meal Plans = Racism

I'm not really feeling this show like I'd hoped but I do enjoy how blatantly Whedon-y the characters are (esp Langdon & Topher & the scar-face doctor).

xpost no moseby to ruin this show

I think it did finally start to get better at episode 8 due to actually building up some kind of plot (so yeah, two good episodes out of nine). It's still not as much fun as I'd been hoping though.

It's good enough that I'll stick with it, but if it did disappear I wouldn't miss it too much, unlike Firefly.

the last three episodes have been so good that i'm hooked. i even think that taking the characters so far out of the estabilished formula had a greater 'game-changing' element thanks to the previous 5 or 6. shame it's gonna get cancelled...

i've been enjoying this, vaguely. the major disconnect for me is the way it repeatedly hammers home the patent atrocity of the dollhouse -- which is populated with quirky, fallible, though generally likable characters (dolls excluded) who banter as whedon characters do. okay, space smugglers have a certain underdog charm about them but a technocratic human trafficking conspiracy does not. a bit strange, anyway, though not nevessarily bad thing at that. i really liked the premise of the show, and i don't really care about a dushku, but the overarching episode-to-episode plot has been REALLY slow to develop and i may lose interest unless shit goes down.

tho i've heard the finale will not air, so i guess my expectations have ultimately been set for me.

so is it definitely getting canceled?

i <3 whedon but fuck man... what a stupid idea for a show

i felt like it was doomed from the jump, it always sounded like a van damme actioner given a whedon rewrite.

FOX: Won’t air the final episode of "Dolhouse," ending the season run at ep. #12 on May 8. #13: 'Epitaph One' will be on the Dollhouse DVD.

srsly pick up fringe instead dudes

I am hanging on mainly because my husband is so excited about this show. We're both big Whedon fans, but I fear my husband is a bigger fan than I am. PRetty sure if he wouldn't be around, I'd have given up a few eps ago. But it's engaging. Only not enough to hang on for a long time. :-(

I haven't read every post on this thread (as I'm behind a few eps). So they are cancelling the show or what?

I love the idea of the show a lot but the way it's handled is actually pretty majorly dud.

This show is deeply flawed and not worthy of pickup but I'd still watch this over boring old Fringe.

no way! this show is booooooooooooooring, fringe is right goofy and at least entertaining

whedon's burning through his accmulated goodwill pretty rapidly w/this one

The scientist dude and his son are vaguely interesting, but the rest of the show is so quasi-X Files/Alias that I can't really care. And the lead actress is in some sort of waking coma.

yeah she is dull

I dunno, fringe I'll happily watch two or three in a row; sure it's a bit mindless and silly but it's fun. goofy is the right word I think

dollhouse is just a dirge to me; yet, I've watched them all so... go figure : /

Hold on, you talking about Dollhouse cause she's s'posed to be "sleepwalking". She's just an empty shell. Truth be told, I think the acting is majorly dud.

No, I'm talking about Fringe.

i thought the last couple of dollhouses were good. like maybe if they had started with this stuff instead of six weeks of fox-mandated timewasting this show could've been better.