Shall we anticipate the FIFTH SEASON of the AMC series "Breaking Bad"? I think I may.

yup, if anything BSG and Lost has taught us all it's better to leave some mysteries out there

lets not talk about BSG.

Or The Wire.

Wire does not make Thermo angry.

What is BSG?

'broad sweeping generalisation', it's a britcom

Lots of meat pies and blood sausages, IIRC.

Tuomas, BSG = BattleStar Galactica. 2.5 seasons of my life i will never get back.

youre never getting back any of your life dude!

not even ilx time?! i thought there was a rebate at the end. like stoppage time.

I think pretty much the only thing that goes against the "Gus is gay" theory is that in one of his first appearances, when he invites Walt to his home, he casually mentions his wife and kids... But they are never seen or even mentioned after that, and it certainly seems Gus lives by himself. So, was Gus just putting up appearances for Walt, or hadn't the writers yet decided he was gay? So many things, especially his whole vendetta against Don Eladio, make more sense if you assume he's gay and the other Hermano was his partner.

OTOH, if the above is true, why didn't the writers just spell it out, instead of just dropping some vague hints? Were they afraid of him getting stereotyped by the viewers, or something?

― Tuomas, Tuesday, June 11, 2013 4:52 AM (3 days ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

FYI the writers literally did spell it out in the script. I think the take home point here is that these two loved each other, whether romantic or not, enough for max to beg for gus' life and for gus to flip his psychopath switch resulting in a life worse than death for hector. I mean what do you want here? A make-out flashback?

Also, they never revealed what in Gus's past was so terrifying that even Don Eladio didn't want to kill him... I guess that thing could still be revealed in the final 8 episodes, but it seems a bit irrelevant now. (Unless someone from Gus's past comes to Walt looking for revenge.)

― Tuomas, Tuesday, June 11, 2013 4:56 AM (3 days ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Is this a reference to max being killed and not gus? Don Eladio said the only reason he wasn't killed is because he knew him. Little lesson in respect, no? Im still not sure if gus was from chile.

that's all otm

Is this a reference to max being killed and not gus? Don Eladio said the only reason he wasn't killed is because he knew him. Little lesson in respect, no?

No, he said that he didn't kill Gus because of "who you are", or something to that effect. And the writer has explicitly said this is a reference to some mysterious stuff in Gus's past; it's that stuff that stopped Don Eladio from killing him.

And Gus is from Chile, or at least was living in Chile, since in the flashback Max is reminiscing of their shared past there.

no he said because i know you and the reason he knows gus is because gus has been giving don eladio's dudes free meth samples in order to get a meeting with him and don eladio didnt like that so much but probably figured gus could make him millions but youve got to show a don some respect, tuomas

yes. he did live in chile mexico and USA. still no idea where he is from

Here's the Vince Gilligan quote on that episode:

All through episode eight, Gus Fring is not wanting people to know about his background. He apparently has some backstory that’s deep and dark and allows him to avoid getting killed at the end of episode eight, but we’re wondering this whole time, “Who is this guy? Who was he in Chile? What is he trying to hide?”

(From here.)

yes ive read that

So it's the background thing that stops him from gettin killed... I'm not very good at Spanish, but I think Don Eladio says something like "I know who you are", which could just mean "you're someone I know", but in this case it means "I know about your past".

(xpost)

yes ive read that

You've read that but you still think Gilligan is wrong?

my reading was the same as Tuomas. seemed like a weird story thread that got dropped, I assume it won't be resolved now.

still not sure how that means gus didnt die because they were scared. if there is something in chile associated with gus, who at this point is handing out free meth samples from under the counter of his chicken store, that is so huge that the don of a mexican cartel is scared, why would they kill his boyfriend?

It doesn't necessarily mean they're scared, just that killing Gus would have some repercussions they don't want... Whereas killing Max is okay, because he isn't significant in the same way.

Maybe killing Gus would lead to a vendetta or something? Who knows, like Shakey said, it seems they dropped the whole Gus's mystery past thing, and it seems unlikely it'll get resolved anymore.

of course im not saying the showrunner is wrong tuomas but perhaps your interpretation is a little off? i mean here was this out of nowhere flashback with gus and a partner trying to sell meth to don eladio and how he paid for this guys college degrees and wow i didnt know pollos hermanos existed in mexico first of course youre going to wonder where or what the guy came from.

to me rather than a dropped story its more like a tacked on story with the flashback of season 3 footage and introducing the current relationship between hector and gus that will ultimately lead to the ding boom moment they knew they wanted since season 2

So it's the background thing that stops him from gettin killed... I'm not very good at Spanish, but I think Don Eladio says something like "I know who you are", which could just mean "you're someone I know", but in this case it means "I know about your past".

.........

It doesn't necessarily mean they're scared, just that killing Gus would have some repercussions they don't want... Whereas killing Max is okay, because he isn't significant in the same way.

― Tuomas, Friday, June 14, 2013 5:13 PM (54 minutes ago) Bookmark

This is exactly how it came across to me.

Guys go watch the episode

Okay, I rewatched that scene, and I still think my original reading is correct. First of all, by they way he talks to them, it's clear Don Eladio has met neither Gus or Max before. So he doesn't personally know Gus. Then Gus and Max present their plan together... Don Eladio asks, if Max is the genius meth cook, why does he need Gus for? What does Gus have to offer? Max tries to defend Gus by saying that he needs him in the whole business scheme, but I don't think Don Eladio is convinced.

At this point, Gus is clearly not the genius drug lord he would later become. The only business manouvre Gus has done is that he's offered Don Eladio's men some free samples to get his attention. Now, maybe Don Eladio thinks Gus has balls for doing that, but I can't see why he would think Gus's skills are so important he needs to be kept alive. Then Hector shoots Max, and Don Eladio gives his little speech to Gus:

Listen to me. The only reason you are alive and he is not... Is because I know who you are. But understand... You are not in Chile anymore.

I think the last sentence is the key part here. It's not a random comment, clearly Gus's Chilean past is related to "who he is", and why Don Eladio can't kill him. But Don Eladio makes it clear that even though it might keep Gus alive, his past gives him no extra power in Mexico ("you're not in Chile anymore"), and he shouldn't try to challenge Don Eladio's authority there.

See I didn't read it like that at all. Hector has made comments about dirty South Americans in two flashbacks by this point. I thought 'I know who you are' meant I know who you are because you've been talking to my guys trying to get a meeting with me and 'you're not in chile anymore' as Mexico is some next level drug dealing so don't be bringing this weak-ass Chilean game to my table, chicken man.

Also, there is the earlier flashback with the Salamanca brothers as kids. Hector answers a call presumably from Don Eladio asking his opinion on Gus working with the cartel. We know Gus went from chile to Mexico then to USA in that order and since he is alive and seems to be working with the cartel I think it's safe to say Don Eladio decided ultimately to work with Gus as boss for North America because Mexicans only imbibe fancy cocaine and North Americans like all the white trash biker/hillbilly drugs ie the crystal meth Gus is peddling. There is a line in that flashback where hector says 'I don't care who he knows' but it's followed by a bunch of chicken man/grande fry cook/dirty dirty South Americans comments so I'm taking that as he has made some connections in the US the cartel could use to expand.

Anyways, good to see 1980s Hector is as completely on point as 2000s Hector always is.

that wouldn't explain why he allowed Gus to live instead of Max though - it's gotta be because of Gus' connections/family/past in Chile?

Yeah, the shock in that scene comes from the fact that Don Eladio has every reason to kill Gus, but only Max ends up getting shot... And I don't think talking to Don Eladio's men and giving them free meth samples is something that would impress him so much he would decide to let Gus live.

Why does he have every reason to kill Gus?

Gus is the "useless" one of the two, and messages need to be sent about territory

Why have the meeting at all if they planned to kill Max and they think Gus is useless?

Are there intended recipients of these messages about territory?

my guess is that they would ordinarily have just killed them both like they would any other dealers on their turf. since Gus went on to work with the cartel, they surely did use him in a Gus/Heisenberg situation for many years

Okay. So he was never actually "useless" to the cartel the way perhaps a chemist whose speciality is formulating a drug the cartel had no interest in making or distributing at the time?

Why have the meeting at all if they planned to kill Max and they think Gus is useless?

To send Gus the message that even though they can't kill him, he shouldn't try to do anything on their territory. What better way to deliver this message than to kill a loved one in front of his own eyes?

Okay. So he was never actually "useless" to the cartel the way perhaps a chemist whose speciality is formulating a drug the cartel had no interest in making or distributing at the time?

At that point they couldn't have known how useful Gus would be, and how much they would stand to gain from the meth business. It remains unclear whether Gus moved to the US and set up his meth distribution all on his own, then made a deal with cartel, or whether he was working for the cartel the whole time. In either case, he would prove his case only later on. At the time when Gus and Max met Don Eladio, Don Eladio clearly didn't see much potential in their business idea, so normally he would've killed both of them, but in this case he had to keep Gus alive because of his past/connections.

Why have the meeting at all if they planned to kill Max and they think Gus is useless?

To send Gus the message that even though they can't kill him, he shouldn't try to do anything on their territory. What better way to deliver this message than to kill a loved one in front of his own eyes?

― Tuomas, Monday, June 17, 2013 3:29 AM (5 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Yeah this is a good point. I still think the idea of Gus coming from some chilean cartel is reaching but I can see how Gilligan has left that wide open as a possibility. It just doesnt come across to me as being that complicated. I might be taking it all too literally because what isnt complicated about this show? not much.

Did you guys read the Entertainment Weekly article about the coming 8 shows?

Id link to it but work has EW on lockdown

The only reason the "I know who you are" line is interesting is because there might yet be some ridiculous blowback for Walt but they needed to do that earlier in the season really.

Eight episodes is about enough time to really do justice to Walt vs Hank and Walt vs Jesse without throwing any new characters in at this point.

id be so thrilled if no meth making occurred and it was all "Walt vs Hank and Walt vs Jesse"

but a quote i remember from that EW piece about the last 8:

POSSIBLE SPOILERS FOR THE SENSITIVE
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Gilligan: "You find meth labs in the darnedest of places"

THEY'RE GOING TO START COOKING IN HELL!

Series ends with Walt cooking up underneath the White House.

Yeah, if they were gonna do that, they should've done it immediately after Gus's demise. OTOH, it did seem kinda significant that Walt was bragging to the Phoenix drug dealers how he got rid of Gus, so I guess there's still a chance that whole thing might come back to haunt him?

If it wasn't for that scene, everything would've been neat and tidy after Mike's death, since the only people still alive (Jesse and Skyler) who know Walt killed Gus have no reason to tell anybody about it.

(xpost to Matt)

Meth lab in Hank's ass ftw.

He was SHITTING METH.

i assume if walt really is in witness protection that it's the cartel he's being protected from? since his only contact with the czech meth empire is lydia he presumably wouldn't have much to say about them. so there could still be blowback just not necessarily only for killing gus