Pit Bulls: What's the appeal?

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Yeah, but why would you want to be a person that owns a marked breed during the time when they are feared? It's not like one gives birth to a pet. It's a choice and I'm curious about what goes into making that choice. It just seems like there are easier breeds to keep which make equally fine pets.

― Spencer Chow, Thursday, 3 May 2007 00:53 (nineteen years ago)

If people who really loved all those "dangerous" dogs didn't keep breeding and raising healthy, well-adjusted specimens even in the down cycles, there'd be no safe/healthy genetic stock to return to once the mania passed...and just in terms of species diversity, I think that's a useful outcome, if for no other reason (and I think there are PLENTY of other reasons, but just to pick one).

― Laurel, Thursday, 3 May 2007 00:56 (nineteen years ago)

xpost
I'm not saying it's a responsibility to others (although some might see it that way). I'm just asking whether owners are aware that their pets cause fear and how they feel about making that choice.

― Spencer Chow, Thursday, 3 May 2007 00:56 (nineteen years ago)

Everyone, like EVERYONE here, owns a pit or a chihuahua or both. Everyone locally knows they're not big assholes---sure it might be a cultural 'I am projecting threat' image, but they're also just great dogs. It's not like driving a hummer er summat.

It's funny, actually, in the town I grew up in, everyone had a husky or a cocker spaniel. The next it was a miniature dachshund or a lab of some sort (NOT smart because everyone tried to keep them as indoor dogs). And the breeding always turned out well somehow due to the lack of puppy mill ubiquity, everyone just bred their dogs with their neighbors' dogs if someone else wanted puppies. Has anyone else encountered such local phenomena?

― Abbott, Thursday, 3 May 2007 00:56 (nineteen years ago)

And that IS funyy bcz my mum-in-law is getting the pit in part for protection, but not becuase pits-scary, because large-ish dog when walking alone at night helps signify 'I am a woman you can't rob, mug, rape, etc.'

― Abbott, Thursday, 3 May 2007 00:58 (nineteen years ago)

Not really, my parents raised collies but we bought ours from a local breeder and when my parents wanted puppies, they took our dog(s) back to the breeder and had her set up a good match with another lineage that she had access to, to get the best outcome for the offspring -- and we didn't have trouble finding homes for either the show- or pet-quality pups, and we able to only place them in homes that seemed to be stable, loving, a good match. It's really a pretty demanding commitment to do right by yr chosen breed, if that's your ultimate aim.

― Laurel, Thursday, 3 May 2007 01:01 (nineteen years ago)

Spencer, people are right to be cautious with any dog, regardless of breed. Granted, a Chinese Crested might have a hard time doing as much damage, but all dogs are capable of vicious bites. I don't like small fluffy dogs much because my aunt had a terribly vicious pekinese, and I walked the nastiest long haired dachshund when I was a kid. My husband was attacked by a Boston terrier when he was a kid and hates them passionately still. But vilifying all dogs of a particular breed, to the point of legislating against them, is over-reacting. My stepdaughter is very aware of how people perceive her dog, and does lots of ambassador work when walking her around.

xpost - Haha Laurel! Chows were on that list for awhile too, iirc.

― Jaq, Thursday, 3 May 2007 01:02 (nineteen years ago)

I just wish people wouldn't dock their ears and tails. I feel this abt every dog. See above: the expressive, cute, relaxed ears of Biffy.

― Abbott, Thursday, 3 May 2007 01:03 (nineteen years ago)

Little dogs have COMPLEXES. Why do they live forever and sweeties like Newfoundlands die in 7 years? This is my argument against intelligent design, though I usually say 'long life of Reagan v. newfoundland.'

― Abbott, Thursday, 3 May 2007 01:05 (nineteen years ago)

Maybe some owners do understand that their dogs might cause fear in some folks and choose to go about walking with their well-treated, friendly packmate to prove the point that you don't have to be afraid of a dog just because it's big and got teef. Like an outreach program.

After watching Cesar Milan deal with some people's little fluffy dogs I'm much more suspicious of those breeds than I am of bull terriers, herding dogs and other big 'uns by a long shot!

― TOMBOT, Thursday, 3 May 2007 01:06 (nineteen years ago)

ps. Jaq your grandpuppy is k-cute! I love his little brown nose.

― Abbott, Thursday, 3 May 2007 01:06 (nineteen years ago)

Yeah, I saw the discussion of Chows above! In my reading, altho I've never had a Chow or known any very well, they're quite smart and strong-willed and not terribly eager to please, and benefit from a firm hand from their owners...you can't just "get by" by being their friend, I don't think. And by "firm hand" I mean obedience training, games to keep them interested so they don't cause trouble when bored, regular exercise with their humans, that kind of thing. Not the kind of dog who'll let you slide. :)

― Laurel, Thursday, 3 May 2007 01:07 (nineteen years ago)

little dogs are the SUVs of canines.

― félix pié, Thursday, 3 May 2007 01:07 (nineteen years ago)

Hahah, OMG, get one (1) eyewitness to a dachshund walking past a German Shepherd and see who freaks out first and most viciously.

― Laurel, Thursday, 3 May 2007 01:09 (nineteen years ago)

chows do tend towards aggression. i think they're beautiful, but i'd never have one.

xpost

― lauren, Thursday, 3 May 2007 01:09 (nineteen years ago)

These are good answers. Frankly, I like virtually every dog I meet and look forward to having a yard where I can keep one.

That said, I do think there is an ego thing with owning a "scary" dog that's similar to owning a Hummer. Not saying it's a good or bad thing, but I do think there's something slightly anti-social about it.

Also I have a thing for Boston Terriers because Famke Janssen is always walking hers around the neighborhood.

Also, my family is not aggressive at all. Some of my best friends are Chows, etc.

― Spencer Chow, Thursday, 3 May 2007 01:12 (nineteen years ago)

little dogs are the SUVs of canines.

Hmm, I disagree with this, they're more like a Miata or Z4.

― Spencer Chow, Thursday, 3 May 2007 01:15 (nineteen years ago)

i was going to say no because people who own little dogs are obnoxious like hummers, but then again miatas are obnoxious as fuck too

― félix pié, Thursday, 3 May 2007 01:16 (nineteen years ago)

actually i like all dogs generally, i would own all this dogs if i could

― félix pié, Thursday, 3 May 2007 01:16 (nineteen years ago)

the sheer brute strength of the pit bull is no joke, though. there are a lot of them at the shelter i volunteer for, and i can only walk the undersized or feeble.

― lauren, Thursday, 3 May 2007 01:19 (nineteen years ago)

Spence, one of the saddest things about pits is that they ARE so eager, and so loyal, and so affectionate, that it's relatively easy to train them to do terrible things by either rewarding violence with approval/affection or by simply hurting them and betraying their trust until that original congenial pack nature is perverted into mindless violence & constant defensive panic (in which case they basically have to be put down, I suspect).

It's a purposeful cycle of abuse that no creature should be subjected to, and it means living in misery for the dogs. The fact that they ARE muscular and have much more jaw strength than average is only a coincidence that has led them to be used for evil purposes in the first place. I mean, would anyone take seriously an attack basenji?

― Laurel, Thursday, 3 May 2007 01:23 (nineteen years ago)

Can anyone see why a woman in a scary neighbs would want to own a 'scary' dog? Or at least a larger one? I've got a pit-basset blend who's the sweetest, goofiest, dog ever, but people stay away from me & him because I've got him, whereas before I had him creepy old dudes would follow me around trying to get me to come home with them. I don't have a phone, car, or bicycle (or friends for that matter)---so the dog provides all the protection (perceived or real) and affection I need.

― Abbott, Thursday, 3 May 2007 01:23 (nineteen years ago)

the sheer brute strength of the pit bull is no joke, though. there are a lot of them at the shelter i volunteer for, and i can only walk the undersized or feeble.

Haha, have you seen them jump? The muscle is all in the hind legs. My girlfriend's family has a pit bull that can jump a ~4ft baby gate without a running start.

― C0L1N B..., Thursday, 3 May 2007 01:29 (nineteen years ago)

two great "scary" dog stories:
1) my mother's friend got a rottweiler for protection instead of an alarm. he was enormous and adorable and a total marshmellow. i remember "dancing" with him when i was a kid and about his size, as he loved to go on his hind legs. when the woman's house was robbed, the burglars pacified him with a loaf of bread and ransacked the place while he had his snack.
2) a friend got mugged a while back while taking his pit out for a late night walk. he was expecting the dog to make a ruckus; instead, it licked the mugger.

― lauren, Thursday, 3 May 2007 01:29 (nineteen years ago)

An even sadder story, Ben used to work with a young woman who was a Colunbia student living in a rough area, and who had a pit as a longtime companion. One night while walking the dog she got mugged (I think at knifepoint?) and the dog fought back, biting the mugger in some large number of places (15? 20?) and forcing him to get medical care. When the whole thing went to trial, a judge ruled that her dog was dangerous and ordered her destroyed, and the woman didn't have the resources to hire a lawyer to fight it. (I've always thought she might have had some options among animal-rights or breed-specialized groups but I think she lost hope during her trip through the system, and just gave in.)

Don't know the behind-the-scenes details cos I only heard it second-hand but I srsly doubt the outcome wd have been the same with a retriever or a Portugese water dog or something. Yes, when they DO attack, certain breeds/dogs can do a lot more damage, but that seems like the most clear-cut situation POSSIBLE to me, and a goddamn shame.

― Laurel, Thursday, 3 May 2007 01:42 (nineteen years ago)

Yeah, but why would you want to be a person that owns a marked breed during the time when they are feared?

Because we love them for their real qualities and wish to dismiss ignorant stereotypes about their imagined qualities? You may as well ask why would anyone want to associate with those dirty jews or niggers when everyone hates them?

― Oilyrags, Thursday, 3 May 2007 01:46 (nineteen years ago)

giant xp, and I wish I'd removed those question marks when I rewrote those sentences to not be rhetorical questions.

― Oilyrags, Thursday, 3 May 2007 01:47 (nineteen years ago)

After watching Cesar Milan deal with some people's little fluffy dogs I'm much more suspicious of those breeds than I am of bull terriers, herding dogs and other big 'uns by a long shot!

My sister works at a vet clinic, and the only dogs that have bit her have been the fluffy little purse dogs.

― Nicole, Thursday, 3 May 2007 01:50 (nineteen years ago)

They are the DEVIL'S ASSHOLES.

― Abbott, Thursday, 3 May 2007 01:52 (nineteen years ago)

would anyone take seriously an attack basenji?

No, and they shouldn't because the headstrong little bastards are virtually untrainable! You tell a basenji to kill, and it will do whatever the hell it wants, just like always.

― Oilyrags, Thursday, 3 May 2007 01:53 (nineteen years ago)

Well exactly.

― Laurel, Thursday, 3 May 2007 01:56 (nineteen years ago)

Still, they are deceptively powerful for their size and have very strong jaws. I once had a pair of jeans that a basenji took a bite out of (he was bored and I wasn't wearing them - just general breed destructiveness in action) and with one chomp he put a half-moon hole in the beltline - this while it was folded, so he actually bit through both sides of the jeans at once!

― Oilyrags, Thursday, 3 May 2007 02:01 (nineteen years ago)

WRINKLEHEAD!

http://www.basenji.it/images/2002/rughe.jpg

― Oilyrags, Thursday, 3 May 2007 02:06 (nineteen years ago)

my father-in-law was always nervous about letting our dog around my 10yo brother-in-law. of course, he had never seen a pit bull before, except for the horror stories on tv and in newspapers (btw this is a person who worries about *everything* anyway). even after years of observing our dog's good behavior, he could still only see her as "the pit bull."

the only dog in that house who ever bit my brother-in-law was an akita. akitas are a breed known not to be the best with children, but my father-in-law was never concerned about *that* dog being around a child. because in his mind akita=good family watchdog, pit bull=savage attack dog. irrational fear.

― Edward III, Thursday, 3 May 2007 02:16 (nineteen years ago)

Spencer, I have a thing for Bostons too, but Mr. Jaq is having none of that :( And wow, sorry about the chow thing, I seriously didn't connect that, was thinking of my sister's black chow who was a fierce looking dog and got scary, then tragic, as he went blind from congenital cataracts and started attacking things at random out of fear. His name was Charcoal and he was the most one-person dog I've come across, very protective of my sis and merely tolerant of most other humans.

― Jaq, Thursday, 3 May 2007 04:21 (nineteen years ago)

I've been so annoyed with dog owners and dog people in general that now I don't like dogs at all.

Yes, I know I shouldn't generalize based on the actions of a few, but what are you gonna do?

― Elvis Telecom, Thursday, 3 May 2007 05:40 (nineteen years ago)

watch amusing youtube vids of ducks annoying pit bull puppies?

― kingfish, Thursday, 3 May 2007 07:00 (nineteen years ago)

Dogs aren't human, Nathalie, it's not like they decide that the world has wronged them due to their unpriviliged upbringing and therefore successful people/children/the neighbors deserve to have their faces savaged off. They react to environment, and people in their environment, and if we want to force dogs to accommodate our lifestyles and live indoors, be people-friendly, communicate in ways that people respond to, we have to communicate in THEIR language as well.

Uh duh. I know that dogs aren't human. I have dog(s) so I know how it works. But following your logic, we would have the same dog based on how we treated'em. What I meant was that dogs have a temparement and no matter how much you train the dog, s/he will inherently have some traits that can't be completely changed. Of course training and treatment of a dog has a major impact in how a dog behaves, but there's also his temerament. I always keep that in mind. Laurel, you misunderstood me: I said it was a mix of the dog itself and its environment. To merely see it as how dogs are trained is a simplification. A dog is not a tabula rasa.

Also, it's as if you are saying that the dogs react to the dogs mishandling them and hence bite their face off? I know that's not what you're saying.

― nathalie, Thursday, 3 May 2007 07:16 (nineteen years ago)

I mean do you guys really not understand that many normal and nice people are scared when certain types of dogs are around?

For me it's all about the interaction of owner and dog. If they're both friendly-looking and the dog isn't festooned in huge studded leather bits and pieces to try and make it look even harder, and the owner actually looks like they're in control of the dog, then I'm not afraid of them, because I know that even if the dog would bite me on cue, the owner's probably not going to give that cue. If, on the other hand, I meet a pit bull/rottweiler/dobermann/boxer/other "status" dog dragging around some young bloke who obviously hasn't got a clue what he's doing, then I steer clear, because that dog doesn't know what it's meant to be doing, so it's going to do what it wants.

In Ireland we have a huge stray dog problem and a huge animal cruelty problem. It's so backward you wouldn't believe it. We have some of the most notorious puppy farms in Europe, and over 50,000 dogs are put to sleep every year, many of them pedigree animals that people just give up on because they can't deal with them and should never have got them in the first place. So, when I read Abbott's post above about keeping an intact male pit bull around for casual breeding purposes, it gives me The Fear, because in this country it would result in untrained, unloved, neglected pit bulls running around loose annoying people until they were eventually surrendered to a pound at nine months or so (when they stop being cute) to be killed. Very sad. (I know that's not what will happen in your case, Abbott, I'm just using it as an example.)

― accentmonkey, Thursday, 3 May 2007 07:23 (nineteen years ago)

http://granite.dogster.com/pix/wcdcs_dog_finalists/144.jpg

― kingfish, Thursday, 3 May 2007 16:23 (nineteen years ago)

A guy who lives up the street from me got his face (literally) ripped half-off from his own dog, which was a pit x lab. He's got his face stiched back on, but it's a pretty tuff scar. Not sure of the exact circumstances, but to have your own dog flip on you is something to ponder and avoid.

― Andi Mags, Thursday, 3 May 2007 23:16 (nineteen years ago)

accentmonkey otm!

My mum-in-law wants to breed him bcz he's a good specimen, help other breeders in the area looking to improve the breed. Responsible placement w/families. As well you knew. :) I guess "farm him out" was a pretty inaccurate phrase.

The guy she's buying him from, he's 90. 90! And he's been breeding UKC pits for 40. In smalltown NM, wtf? But he's also VERY careful & responsible about breeding/matching owners/etc. Which just warms my heart so much! He says the main problem he's had is people breaking into his backyard to steal his puppies. :(

― Abbott, Thursday, 3 May 2007 23:23 (nineteen years ago)

Also, apparently, the breeder guy's followed the lifes of all the male pups and he says the ones who were uncut ended up with kinder temperaments toward people! Which I don't fully understand, but he's been at it for 40 years so I guess he knows how his bloodlines TEND to act.

― Abbott, Thursday, 3 May 2007 23:25 (nineteen years ago)

I'm surprised nobody has pointed out that a lot of people might own a pit bull for the simple reason that there are a LOT of them in shelters these days who need good homes and they are pretty cute and friendly, like all dogs.

― jessie monster, Thursday, 3 May 2007 23:50 (nineteen years ago)

i'm a sucker for a dog that can't kill me.

― M@tt He1ges0n, Thursday, 3 May 2007 23:59 (nineteen years ago)

Like none of them? No matter what size, if their bite wound punctures the skin, their BACTERIA can kill you, at least.

― Abbott, Friday, 4 May 2007 04:45 (nineteen years ago)

that's not what he means, obviously.

what he means is that he;s afraid of big scary dogs, and doesn't make any fine distinctions among them.

― kenan, Friday, 4 May 2007 04:47 (nineteen years ago)

I understand. If you get a puncture wound, though, go to hospital: staph and necrotizing fasciitis aren't fun. I suppose I was being a pedant. But someone could come along and be even more of a pedant and say, 'no the dog's bacteria killed you, not the dog,' & debate forever while poor M@tt stood there bleeding.

― Abbott, Friday, 4 May 2007 04:50 (nineteen years ago)

if you have decided not to like dogs, this is all an unwinnable argument.

nd I'm in that club, I guess -- though I don't, like, KICK dogs or anything, I just like cats.

― kenan, Friday, 4 May 2007 04:52 (nineteen years ago)

And i'm certainly not afraid of dogs that are well behaved and properly restrained. I will show them love. Same as I will other people's babies.

― kenan, Friday, 4 May 2007 04:54 (nineteen years ago)

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