THE GAME OF THRONES/ASOIAF SPOILER THREAD (WARNING: SPOILERS)

So not only can we be impatient with GRRM for writing so slow, but his publishers for taking their goddamn sweet time too. I remember when I asked about the ADWD paperback at a store in March, they told me it had just been pushed back a fourth(!) time until May. Just went on the B&N website to see that it has now been pushed back again, until October. Jesus.

With the show, I'm in a p nice place at this point where between the changes/composites they're making and my faded memory of what actually happens in the books, I'm in just the right amount of suspense.

― Moron Tabernacle Chior (Jon Lewis)

ha this is exactly where i am also, i read the first three books in between season one and season two and it really hampered my ability to enjoy season two. either the changes they made annoyed me (and this is rarely the case) or it was too condensed or they just couldn't pull stuff off on the show ('blackwater' comes to mind). there was also a certain deliberate bleakness in book two, martin making it clear how brutal the war is for the powerless and that knights are generally little more than effective murderers that in the show just gets reduced to so much corny grit. there's also some fleshing out of characters (stannis esp) and backstory stuff that was more easily understood to be missing in an adaptation. this season enough time has passed that i don't mind as much and i think at the same time they've improved enough at adapting that i've either enjoyed the changes or enjoyed seeing how the show has strengthened or brought to life certain aspects of the book (snow and ygritte esp).

was joffrey a weird murder-sex perv in the books? thats a big change in characterization i think

I don't think he was shown doing anything quite that horrible, but it's not really much of a stretch.

idk! hes clearly shown to be a horrible kid but hes also pretty clearly just a fucked up kid w/ father issues and too much power, not like a budding sex murderer

yeah, in the books I think there's more of a sense of his sadistic tendencies belonging to a spoiled and cruel child, where the series has gone for the full-blown psychopath. idk, i kind of feel like making his lack of empathy congenital is a bit of a waste, e.g. you lose the motivation for him deciding to have Bran killed, which in the books is about wanting to fulfil his father's wishes. His relationship with his mother also seems different -- in the books there's much less of the sense that she's ever attempted to be a restraining hand, but the series makes a big deal of him threatening her for getting in his way.

I used to think that the characterisation change was partly a result of the ageing-up and so the need to deal with adolescent development in a different way (which i think kind of explains some of the Robb-Talisa story, given the jeyne westerling stuff is supposed to happen when he's sixteen but in the show he'll be 18 by then and given the super-sexy treatment it'd take a lot of explaining if an 18-year-old king surrounded by camp followers for 2 years was that kind of romantically/sexually naive). but joffrey isn't aged up by more than a year, so. i guess it's just "incest corrupts the mind" + "this is what a psychopath looks like on television"

totally, well put

yeah i'll admit that i was a lil taken aback at the whole crossbow thing---i remember him being cruel, but not delighting in cruelty a la the bastard

ionoman we don't get any POV closeups but iirc it's p clear from day 1 that IT'S A GOOD LIFE is playing 24/7 in king's landing once lil joff gets his crown

Ha that's true

in the books sansa was to be wed to some random tyrell cousin, right? also i don't recall cersei being told to marry loras

loras's brother. another sensible write-out/merge, actually adds to the pathos of it

loras was already in the kingsguard at that point, so it wouldn't have been an option - cersei's marriage to someone is suggested though iirc

sansa thought for a second she was going to be wed to loras and then margaery was all "haha no silly he can't marry anyone, we want you to marry my older brother willas, he is sweet and gentle and likes puppies and can't walk due to a riding accident"

Loras was like the third son, and outside of cock, mainly interested in serving in the Kings Guard, so no marriage intrigue there. Sansa was to marry one of his else brothers, who happened to be lame in a leg but smarter than most of the Tyrells.

I wanted her to marry Willas, I think that might have been her only chance not to end up with a horrible life.

i wanted her to elope with the hound

i did too kinda

You guys are my sworn enemies.

getting rid of all that crap with the drunk knight was definitely a good move

The weird thing is that they introduced him right at the beginning of S2, but then he never came back as far as I know (haven't seen any of S3 yet).

You guys are my sworn enemies.

getting rid of all that crap with the drunk knight was definitely a good move

Dontos is supposed to make a return - maybe next series?

surely it'd be quite a significant departure if they dropped the Alayne Stone story entirely -- I'm kind of curious how they'd manage to do it given how much they've decided to have Varys know.

Varys could likely have known all that though - he doesn't give a shit because it suited his agenda. The problem is the Lannisters knowing.

is the lorays being gay stuff ever made explicit in the books at all?

IIRC there's no actual sex scene but multiple ppl talk about Renly and Loras boning

yeah, it's not on screen but it's implied many times. i think one of the main differences in their sexual relationship is that in the books margaery never actually joins the two for a menage? it's just 'joked' about?

i dont see why they would drop the alayne arc, it would happen next season anyway, sansa escapes right after joffrey's wedding

Looking at the upcoming ep titles is interesting to guess where they'll end up re books 3/4
407 Bear and the Maiden Fair - Jaime rescues Brienne (or maybe doesn't manage to, I can see her vanishing after this season since you don't necessarily need her for the Catelyn reveal, and her death would spur Jaime to straighten up?), also Yunkai arrival, Tyrion/Sansa
408 Second Sons - ref. to Jeoffrey-Tommen / Tyrion-Jaime / the mercenary group defending Yunkai
409 Rains of Castermere - ref. to Tywin's ruthlessness, so Red Wedding
410 Mhysa - 'mother', taking of Yunkai, Arya bails for Braavos, Catelyn reveal which pays off all the resurrection stuff with the Bros., maybe even Jeoffrey's wedding as cliffhanger
No idea where the Wall stuff falls in this sequence

ya 409 will almost certainly be red-wed

i get nervous just thinking about it tbh

which episode do you think they'll have the ten minute scene of Theon's genitals getting mutilated

Oh man I know, enough already with that. I know torture porn is inherently medieval but damn

More I think about it, 410: Jeoffrey dies, Tyrion accused, Tommen as king with Cersei, Jaime arrives

tvguide type synopses -

407 Bear and the Maiden Fair - Dany exchanges gifts with a slave lord outside of Yunkai. As Sansa frets about her prospects, Shae chafes at Tyrion's new situation. Tywin counsels the king, and Melisandre reveals a secret to Gendry. Brienne faces a formidable foe in Harrenhal.

408 Second Sons - King's Landing hosts a wedding, and Tyrion and Sansa spend the night together. Dany meets the Titan's Bastard. Davos demands proof from Melisandre. Sam and Gilly meet an older gentleman.

409 Rains of Castermere - Robb presents himself to Walder Frey, and Edmure meets his bride. Jon faces his harshest test yet. Bran discovers a new gift. Daario and Jorah debate how to take Yunkai. House Frey joins with House Tully.

410 Mhysa - Joffrey challenges Tywin. Bran tells a ghost story. In Dragonstone, mercy comes from strange quarters. Dany waits to see if she is a conqueror or a liberator.

Robb presents himself to Walder Frey - heh

man i hope they don't let us on to shae's betrayal beforehand

Sam and Gilly meet an older gentleman.

haha

i love how deliberately understated these are! 'House Frey joins with House Tully'

'Bran tells a ghost story' in Mother episode - something to do with zombie cat?

i would guess the next episode is where the boltons have their proper coming out party as villains

This is the society-column proper-etiquette version of events

'Tyrion makes a point to Tywin'

"Joffrey challenges Tywin" will be the "sharp lesson" scene which should be excellent.

"meeting an older gentlemen" was kinda reminding me of the first 1/3 of Dostoevsky novels where it's all just gossiping about archaic social niceties

jawn snuhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

lol

'Bran tells a ghost story' in Mother episode

Dany exchanges gifts with a slave lord outside of Yunkai.

Maybe SHE'S the one who drops the deuce???

haw

i would guess the next episode is where the boltons have their proper coming out party as villains

well we have psycho ramsay revealed ahead of time and it'll be bolton's own men rather than the mummers that put the maiden in with the bear, so i think things have accelerated somewhat on that front

roose is pretty clearly shown to be Not A Good Guy in this last episode, when he lets jaime go

Yeah but even so, big diff between "Not A Good Guy Who's Out For Himself" and "Not A Good Guy Who Makes Cloaks From The Skins Of Small Children".

I'm looking forward to the Boltons coming to the fore as baddies-in-chief for the series.

I haven't read the books; are the practical aspects of winter coming addressed at all? Like are there any voices of reason going "hey maybe we should all be focusing on stockpiling food rather than fighting wars, since we won't be able to grow crops for years on end" ?

Or am I misunderstanding how seasons work in this fantasy world.