jenny mccarthy wants your kid to get measles: autism, vaccines, and stupid idiots

There is no surge in autism, I believe there is a general rise in cases but this does not coincide with the introduction of MMR.

and your field of expertise is....

Blog reading!

The Internet, M.D.

; D

everyone's area of expertise is anecdotal evidence

lolz =)

Yeah TBH we're as bad as they are cos we go on what we read but at least its the bloody Lancet.

http://www.mwscomp.com/mpfc/tfgumby.gif

Brain specialist, yesterday.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with considering first-person accounts as long as you bear in mind there are 8 billion of them.

i read the abstract of a paper that suggested the 'general rise' in autism has to do with the public awareness of the importance of folate levels in expectant mothers, the widespread supplementaion of which led to more full term births of infants with certain brain disorders??

BAHAHA Trayce.

"No, the brain in your HEAD."

Oh man, elmo, that means my 'Folic Acid is for Everyone' shirt is responsible for all this.

I don't know what distinction you're making, but I think the documented rise in diagnoses is what people are referring to when they say "surge."

(Obviously there are whole discussions to be had about whether it's not better diagnosed -- as in "caught more often" -- or overdiagnosed or whether there's actually a higher incidence.)

^^ sorry, that was to ledge

lol see for those anti-vaccination rocket scientists it's much easier to point to something as tangible as an INJECTION of a FOREIGN SUBSTANCE

We talked about that upthread, how autism is diagnosed at an age where the only real child-related events people can point to are gestation, birth, and vaccination

Yeah I am assuming its not that theres more autism but rather more "oh this is autism" diagnoses rather than "oh the kids retarded".

rather rather rather

Obviously there are whole discussions to be had about whether it's not better diagnosed -- as in "caught more often" -- or overdiagnosed or whether there's actually a higher incidence.

― nabisco

overdiagnosed overdiagnosed overdiagnosed overdiagnosed overdiagnosed overdiagnosed overdiagnosed overdiagnosed overdiagnosed overdiagnosed overdiagnosed overdiagnosed overdiagnosed overdiagnosed overdiagnosed overdiagnosed overdiagnosed overdiagnosed overdiagnosed overdiagnosed overdiagnosed overdiagnosed overdiagnosed overdiagnosed overdiagnosed overdiagnosed overdiagnosed overdiagnosed

I don't know what distinction you're making, but I think the documented rise in diagnoses is what people are referring to when they say "surge."

ok, I was presuming 'surge' is used to imply a specific, large, and unprecedented rise, since the introduction of MMR; instead of a gradual rise since, like, whenever, probably.

I do not see a way to lower profits for Pharma anymore. I see this is a gold mine for both Pharma and the vaccine court's fund. I see a mad rush of parents that may have been on the fence, to the doctor for "catch-up" shots. The vary same thing that put My Liam over the edge. I can not express my sadness.

Posted by: Matt Flynn | February 12, 2009 at 05:08 PM

Matt's link goes to this http://www.sophisticatering.com/

Where does this "surge in autism" come from anyway? I dont know *anyone* with autistic kids, but I know plenty of self-diagnosed geek twits telling anyone who'll listen that they're aspie.

Things seemed to hit critical mass when this article appeared in Wired in 2001. If memory serves, I believe this was the first time I heard of Asperger's.
http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/9.12/aspergers.html

I remember a lot of autism talk following Bill Gates' rather unsettling testimony to Congress during the Microsoft anti-trust hearings.

OK, the neurodiversity movement is kinda weird

http://nymag.com/news/features/47225/

Gates was born ambidextrous, so he has lots of issues.

pretty sure the autism explosion is due to changing diagnostic practices, not to an actual increase in incidence

...which i'm also sure that someone has pointed out upthread?

i read the abstract of a paper that suggested the 'general rise' in autism has to do with the public awareness of the importance of folate levels in expectant mothers, the widespread supplementaion of which led to more full term births of infants with certain brain disorders??

― obi don quixote (elmo argonaut), Thursday, February 12, 2009 5:52 PM (2 hours ago) Bookmark

this, btw, is similar to increasing rates of cancer: the longer we live, the more likely we are to get cancer. better healthcare/lifestyles ---> higher rates of cancer

would be curious to see a retroactive study of post-war psych diagnoses (say, PTSD/depression) corrected for the fact that soldier mortality rates are so much lower (ie - we can save pretty much anyone's life on the battlefield now). impossible, i know

BAH I hate the argument that vaccines are a big profit $$$ for pharmaceutical companies (and that's the only reason health experts and national organizations want us to get them). Surprise _ Increased Spending on Drugs Is Linked to More Advertising, and it's not MMR vaccines that are getting double-page spreads in Newsweek every week.

Sales increases of the 50 most advertised drugs made up almost half of the $21 billion growth in retail spending on prescription drugs from 1999 to 2000, NIHCM found. The 9,850 other drugs on the market accounted for the rest of the 12-month rise. Prescriptions for these 50 drugs rose by 25 percent in the same period, compared with a 4.3 percent increase for all other drugs combined.

I don't know why I am arguing this to you sane people but OTOH it is interesting.

That's from this AARP, which is good too.

Can't find anything about it on the Coast To Coast AM site, but Ian wrote this in his blog:

IP: "Freely"
Monday, February 9, 2009, 12:33 AM CST (General)

by Ian Punnett

Update! For years I have maintained an open mind on the claim that childhood vaccines either introduce or trigger autism in toddlers that previously had shown no signs of being autistic. Many a past radio guest has presented what seem like credible evidence and at least anecdotal testimony that the traditional MMR vaccines cause autism, period, and that people ought to refuse to have their children vaccinated just to be safe.

While I think I gave all those claims a fair airing, in the end, my wife and I decided that the risks outweighed the benefits in favor of the shots and so our boys immunized. Other than being cursed to be my sons, they are developmentally normal in ever way. I have never regretted immunizing my children. Tonight, I have never been so grateful...

would be curious to see a retroactive study of post-war psych diagnoses (say, PTSD/depression) corrected for the fact that soldier mortality rates are so much lower (ie - we can save pretty much anyone's life on the battlefield now). impossible, i know

Sort of related, I've read a couple different things about the trauma/orthopedic care of soldiers who fought in Iraq that really impressed on me just how more is within the bounds of treatment now. There was a ton of injury even in the first Iraq war where they'd let a guy who was alive but severely wounded stay out there and die, or just didn't have the abilities for life-sustaining critical care we have worked out now. The good side is obviously the reduction in deaths, but the bad side is there's more people who suffered those kind of traumas and survived, which is kind of a big depressing question mark when it comes to the psychological aftermath.

^^^ that's what prompted the thought, actually. veterans of the iraq war may be unique in that, even though there's fewer of them (compared to vietnam, say), many of them will be multiple amputees and/or suffering from other debilitating traumas that we've only recently been able to manage. how they're reabsorbed into society and the healthcare system will be something to watch. i've read at least anecdotal (ie - "human interest" magazine) stories about how many soldiers w/severe physical trauma are suffering equally debilitating psychological problems :(

on the other hand, less dudes are dying, and the advances we've made in prosthetics are astounding

i wanna say that the typical timeline for severe battle trauma goes like:

* battlefield
* field hospital
* OR in the green zone for immediate stabilization
* OR @ like Rammstein for intermediate stabilization/surgical intervention
* OR back in the states for the beginning of long-term surgical care

...but that this happens over the course of like 48 hours instead of weeks/months

anyway, different thread...

For what it's worth, vaccines are so low on the pharma-profit scale, that there are so few vaccine manufacturers that when a single one loses a single facility, there are worldwide shortages. All this talk of the vaccine-cash connexion is incredibly incorrect.

I know for real it is the craziest lie I have ever heard.

Vaccines are one of the noblest things made by humans.

article about growing # of kids showing up to school w/o vaccines
http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-immunization29-2009mar29,0,406104,print.story

http://www.jennymccarthybodycount.com/Jenny_McCarthy_Body_Count/Home.html

velko that is the worst thing in the world.

Nicole's site is a bittersweet piece of consolence.

For Bjorklund -- whose children attend Stoneybrooke Christian Schools in San Juan Capistrano, where 18% of entering kindergartners had vaccine exemptions last fall -- doubts about vaccine safety resonate.

"Part of the reason is that there's been such a huge rise in autism . . . and what's the cause?" she said. "Just because the pharmaceutical companies say we need it doesn't mean we need it."

i get so angry about shit like this

bjerklund or bdorklund, i can't decide

Final followup on Andrew Wakefield

THE doctor who sparked the scare over the safety of the MMR vaccine for children changed and misreported results in his research, creating the appearance of a possible link with autism, a Sunday Times investigation has found.

Confidential medical documents and interviews with witnesses have established that Andrew Wakefield manipulated patients’ data, which triggered fears that the MMR triple vaccine to protect against measles, mumps and rubella was linked to the condition.

The research was published in February 1998 in an article in The Lancet medical journal. It claimed that the families of eight out of 12 children attending a routine clinic at the hospital had blamed MMR for their autism, and said that problems came on within days of the jab. The team also claimed to have discovered a new inflammatory bowel disease underlying the children’s conditions.

However, our investigation, confirmed by evidence presented to the General Medical Council (GMC), reveals that: In most of the 12 cases, the children’s ailments as described in The Lancet were different from their hospital and GP records. Although the research paper claimed that problems came on within days of the jab, in only one case did medical records suggest this was true, and in many of the cases medical concerns had been raised before the children were vaccinated. Hospital pathologists, looking for inflammatory bowel disease, reported in the majority of cases that the gut was normal. This was then reviewed and the Lancet paper showed them as abnormal.

Despite involving just a dozen children, the 1998 paper’s impact was extraordinary. After its publication, rates of inoculation fell from 92% to below 80%. Populations acquire “herd immunity” from measles when more than 95% of people have been vaccinated.

Last week official figures showed that 1,348 confirmed cases of measles in England and Wales were reported last year, compared with 56 in 1998. Two children have died of the disease.

With two professors, John Walker-Smith and Simon Murch, Wakefield is defending himself against allegations of serious professional misconduct brought by the GMC. The charges relate to ethical aspects of the project, not its findings. All three men deny any misconduct.

Through his lawyers, Wakefield this weekend denied the issues raised by our investigation, but declined to comment further.

"Just because the pharmaceutical companies say we need it doesn't mean we need it."

i wonder if part of the attraction of the anti-vaccine/vaccine-skeptic 'movement' is that it can be so neatly folded into an anti-corporate stance?? like hatin vaccines is some punkrock antiauthoritarian shit or something'

i mean skepticism is healthy, esp when dealing with the pharmaceutical industry, but this shit is mind-blowingly wrong-headed

i think so gbx but i also think its linked/part of a wider backlash against "invasive" "western" medicine and the general decline in satsifaction and trust in health care providers.

i think the autism movement bothers me so much in part because there ARE a # of things that the medical community and health care providers have done and are doing that are wasteful and dangerous (unnecessary surgeries, obv conflicts of interest in prescription, not consistently implementing best practices in hopsitals &c) but none of these have anything to do w/vaccines. im sure someone's pointed out most of the big pharam co.s dont want to invest in vaccines which arent particularly profitable and make more $$$ from ppl getting sick then the ever will from vaccination

i think the autism movement bothers me so much in part because there ARE a # of things that the medical community and health care providers have done and are doing that are wasteful and dangerous (unnecessary surgeries, obv conflicts of interest in prescription, not consistently implementing best practices in hopsitals &c) but none of these have anything to do w/vaccines

^^^ totally. it's sort of stunning (like, literally) that ppl will get whipped into a frenzy about a likely non-existent problem like vacc--->autism and yet be all yawn whatever w/r/t like basic medical care for underserved populations

( as well as other wasteful/dangerous medical practices, ob)

lol my virology prof had nothing kind to say about anti-vaccine ppl 2day