Why I hate the Daily Mail, as distilled into one edition

depends on if you want them to represent the majority or not i spose

i don't want that i suppose.

but more strongly i don't want random retrospective search on twitter account being the basis of this judgement of one's character, i suppose.

I haven't been 17 for a very long time, but most teenagers weren't bigots when I was growing up and most teenagers aren't bigots now.

How the Kent police managed to put a bunch of teenage applicants on a shortlist without vetting their social media presences, I just don't know. But since it's the police, I'll guess incompetence and stupidity, especially when 'public engagement' is at stake.

I don't get why the emphasis is that she was bigoted "on twitter". Unless the thinking is it was a terribly formed joek then she was bigoted, enough to be so publicly.

am obvs suspicious as to why the mail is suddenly concerned abt racist homophobes on the police force, but am more perplexed by the amount of people who are like 'yeah i was a racist homophobe when i was 14, its just a phase yeah.' her 'defence' of said tweets is pretty weak, and the police bod who employed her was equally woeful on radio 4 at the weekend, all 'hey at least she's better than the politicians and media types who would just hide behind a press release, at least she had the guts to stand in front of reporters and cry.'

I wish a lot of teenagers didn't use certain slurs in an unthinking way but I don't think anyone that does is a hateful bigot. Calling her "a racist and a homophobe" on this evidence seems way OTT to me.

Sorry, that should be I don't think everyone who does is a hateful bigot.

A certain amount of 'sea change' wrt the Stephen Lawrence case, happened at the DM

nothin stronger than a past sinner that repents

Or maybe they dislike racist bullyboys more than respectable black people, thesedays..

But her "racism" consists of remarks about an "illegal" at her local takeaway who can't speak English, which is shitty but no different - in content rather than language - to what you find in the Mail all the time. You could find dozens of tweets more racist than that if you only searched the last five minutes. Not saying that her tweets are OK, obviously, but I hesitate to go straight to "racist" on that evidence. Unless there are worse tweets that I haven't read yet?

The ones talking about 'pikeys' were illuminating.

lots of teenagers use bigoted language because it's what's around them, because they don't know better, because they want to shock or transgress - it doesn't mean they ARE hateful bigots themselves. i'm pretty sure i used "pikey" and maybe "chav" when i was a teenager. definitely used "retard" until i was, like, 20. trained them out of my vocabulary when i got to know more stuff.

the mail deserves a massive eyeroll but tbh this is exactly the kind of learning experience that ideally teaches mouthy teenagers that certain words are beyond the pale for good reason. hopefully she learns from it and goes on to fulfil her potential. if she just builds up resentment and continues to think like that, then fuck her.

lex otm

x 2

yeah that sums up how i feel pretty much

"I don't get why the emphasis is that she was bigoted "on twitter". Unless the thinking is it was a terribly formed joek then she was bigoted, enough to be so publicly."

I guess my issue with it is that does that mean she won't get a high profile job ever again? one that daily mail or whatever deems 'twitter search worthy'? It just a bit arbitrary.. and.. bigoted? can one be a bigot about bigots?

I guess its two things still. one of twitter being this device that one can unwittingly fuck yourself up in the future with. and the other being the once you're a bigot you're fair game. I dunno.

Another pt I guess is that adults who are actually in power say much more offensive things every day - they just cloak their shit in more respectable language

i'm pretty sure i used "pikey" and maybe "chav" when i was a teenager.

― flamenco drop (lex pretend), dinsdag 9 april 2013 19:18 (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Is it considered bad fashion to say "chav"? Does that make me a 'hateful bigot'? (serious question from a non-UK person who uses this phrase quite a lot)

Not read it but I think this has had an impact on people's use of the word:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Chavs-Demonization-Working-Owen-Jones/dp/1844678644

Thanks for that.

By no means do I use the word meaning "the working class" though. That is too broad a concept almost for me as a foreigner with an English gf to comprehend. The UK class "system" is, on a deeper level, quite tricky to understand when you didn't grow up with it.

Reading the wiki on "chavs" now I am learning a lot of its origins. Should have done that earlier.

I used the term in the 'blingy' sense of the word mostly, like the people you see on embarrasing 4th rate "reality" shows, who wilfully go on telly to "proudly" tell of their teenage pregnancy and still smoking, stuff like that.

i told my son i'm not comfortable with him using "chav" as a generalised term of abuse, the subcultural nuances are more or less buried in old-fashioned lol-the-poor snideness now

Your son is fortunate to have you as his father NV. I will take that to heart.

it's like a lot of things, depends how you say it, but there's a real Daily Mail ring to most usage i see/hear

yeah it has become a term of class hatred, particularly when it's sneering middle class people laughing at working class people.

and I'm sure Jones' argument is much more nuanced but I think that's the gist of his argument

amongst kids i think "Chav" is doing the job that used to be done by "Townie" or "Casual" but even working class kids throwing it about are buying into the demonization Jones talks about

I am thankful to the classmate who told me I was being thoughtless when I repeated (aged 12?) some horrible homophobic jokes I had heard getting big laffs among people old enough to know better the day before, cz I don't think many other 12-year-olds would have, and it was a pretty big "just because an adult said it and some older kids laughed, doesn't mean it was big or clever" moment for me

anyway I'm torn here, because "learning experience" and "inappropriate for public figure" sure but digging through things a 17y/o said when they were 14 for dirt is p. uncool (don't have such a problem with the 16 part, maybe that's an arbitrary distinction but still)

I will hold my hands up here and say I hadn't actually read the tweets themselves (BBC article didn't mention them, I refuse to click on a Daily Mail link) and someone at work implied they'd been a lot worse than they seem to have been. Not that they're not awful, but I get what people are saying a bit more now about just using teenage type language (that lots would never use). Obv getting the police involved is a dumb idea and the Daily Mail are horrific but it's kind of an interesting discussion about what public stuff is and isn't off-limits when it comes to your suitability for your job (see also: the dongle joke thing).

i think when you're a responsible adult then you are to some extent accountable for what you say in public forums, i'm inclined to be a bit more forgiving of youthful stupidity, and more inclined to be v. suspicious of blowing up youthful stupidity in the interests of denying young people a voice in community politics

If she's meant to be 'building bridges' between the police and young people, how is a young gay person meant to trust her when they feel they've been victimised or ignored by the police? She wasn't meant to represent straight, white, etc., young people. This may be a harsh wake-up call for a 17 yr old to deal with, but it's a lot less harsh than the victims of crime and police malpractice have to deal with, which she was meant to help with.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BHcEGxNCAAAanoj.jpg

"Will her funeral now be targeted?" is the DM's way of begging: "TARGET THE FUNERAL PLEASE FOR MORE GREAT FRONT PAGES"

'bloodied youths mill around police with riot shields'
'police with riot shields mill around bloodied youths'

If she's meant to be 'building bridges' between the police and young people, how is a young gay person meant to trust her when they feel they've been victimised or ignored by the police? She wasn't meant to represent straight, white, etc., young people. This may be a harsh wake-up call for a 17 yr old to deal with, but it's a lot less harsh than the victims of crime and police malpractice have to deal with, which she was meant to help with.

― the so-called socialista (dowd), Tuesday, April 9, 2013 9:08 PM (2 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

this is kind of how i feel about it too. no doubt she did some dumb shit when she was younger, and hopefully this will result in a teachable moment for her. that said, i don't think she deserves to be crucified by the mail (or anyone, but especially the mail) not least since the language and opinions that disqualify her for the job she had instantly qualify her for the mail's opinion pages.

https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/322463275210117120/photo/1

Baws, that didn't work. Try again:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BHmeo-xCEAETp6P.jpg

Every single thing about that front page is amazing.

makin' loadsa bread

lmao is that a British Sea Power shirt

could say lots of things I spose

I think it's the "comes after accusations of left-wing bias over the BBC coverage" that's my favourite bit. Aye, accusations made in the Mail. Self-perpetuating bunch of fannies.

This is such incredible nonsense. The chart show plays the high-charting new entries. That's its job. Simple.

I'm just hoping that the coverage alerts people who hadn't known, and drives it up the charts further.

That Thatcher-biographer chap on Question Time certainly did a sterling job of promoting it tonight.

I was ambivalent about it and haven't bought it but now I hope this absurd bullshit takes it all the way to number one.

Hilarious that John Whittingdale cites as his only precedent the God Save the Queen incident which is in no way a 36-year-old case that made the BBC look foolish.

BBC Witch Song

What did old Officer Phish tweet anyhow?

Shocking stuff (reading the Mail so you don't have to...)

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/04/11/article-2307705-193EE63B000005DC-576_634x402.jpg

Not vastly different to a zillion other tweets then. Outrageous!