Moneyball won't win the Premiership 2012-13

di canio still says he has fascist ideals, no?

In fairness, he hasn't had a 'racism incident' for nearly nine months now.

black cats, blackshirts, makes sense

fwiw flavio briatore made us get rid of our mascot jude the (black) cat cos they're bad luck in italy

OH, FUCK OFF FUCK OFF FUCK OFF FUCK OFF FUCK OFF! I AM NOT FUCKING HAPPY ABOUT THIS!

http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/66691000/jpg/_66691785_lzq5abb7.jpg

Rafa out?

What time is it over there?

an hour too early

quality debate on 5 Live about how much of a fascist is di Canio just now.

What did they decide? I was listening to TalkSport.

Pretty sure Di Canio's still fascist in so far as he is capable of coherent thought about politics - he's said it repeatedly over a long time – but realises saying he's a fascist gets fewer nods of approval in England than it does in Rome. That said, I bet his fascism is more about trains running on time and the police being able to beat up crims than it is about imprisoning people with different views and persecuting Jews.

Off to the Cottage tonight. Can't be worse that last season. In a way, I hope we lose so any lingering sparks of hope can be doused long before the end of the season.

Xp - because the Lazio fans he Nazi-saluted famously have banners about the trains running on time and never have a bad word to say about gli ebrei

How is this a case of anything other than 'David Miliband OTM'? I mean I'm sure that being a director of a club that employed a self-proclaimed fascist probably wouldn't have looked great at the start of his new career, but it's a fairly cut-and-dried decision. Going "nerr nerr something about Iraq who's the real fascist eh???" is the height of idiocy.

It's also a dumb footballing decision but that's hardly the point.

Are Italians notoriously punctual people or something? If my morning train's on time I have to sprint like fuck to get it.

Course Miliband's OTM

people tend to feel fondly of Paolo because of his football and managerial prowess and the fact that when he's not saying fascist shit he says otm shit, plus it being difficult to take his fascism full seriously, plus it having no impact on the political world. now DMil probly has no choice but to disassociate himself with a guy like that but imago is perfectly correct that the world's hypocrisy means it's fine for DMil to associate with IRL scumbags who have taken IRL political decisions that have gotten tens of thousands of IRL people killed.

public standards are fucked up i know but that's the factuality of the situation.

it's fine for DMil to associate with IRL scumbags who have taken IRL political decisions that have gotten tens of thousands of IRL people killed

I'm not a Miliband stan in any way shape or form but I'd guess it's virtually impossible to be foreign secretary without doing this? I mean he probably sincerely believes that the Iraq and Afghanistan wars were the right course of action which makes him a ridiculous fool at best and an accomplice cunt at worse but that's different from actively employing someone who stands up and goes "I am a fascist".

Even within football's own fucked up morality it looks dodgy.

I would think that ideas of liberalism, liberality, free speech, freedom of association etc mean that PDC has a right to believe what he wants without being treated differently for it.

I don't really know what he believes. Maybe it's not very coherent. Maybe he's mostly just a egotist. Maybe he wouldn't be pleasant to be around.

It seems like David Miliband believes in neoliberalism to some degree but maybe that's just him being realistic and accepting the apparently inevitable.

I think DM's decision is relatively hollow as a big deal in that he is about to move to NYC anyway and would probably have had to quit this post anyway. (I also think it bizarre that his move to NYC has been presented as a sacrifice rather than a dream move up that anyone would take.)

NV and pinefox otm

i think there's an inherent logical difficulty in defending the freedoms of people who actively support political parties that would take those freedoms away from people given the chance. but i think what pinefox says about di Canio feels on the money.

Fascism is bad and lionising Fascism is bad, but whatever mental hoops somebody jumps thru to convince themselves they are at arm's length from "justifiable" wars, the brute fact is that the business of realpolitik and the people who choose to engage with it is far more damaging and destructive than anything di Canio has ever done in his entire life.

But the point, surely, is that if you are a politician – and let's for one moment accept the premise that DM got into politics to do good – you have no choice but to engage with awful people, and you will likely do awful things. Whereas you do have a choice about keeping on with a meaningless sinecure which will leave you as the working colleague of a self-declared fascist.

"whatever mental hoops somebody jumps thru to convince themselves they are at arm's length from "justifiable" wars, the brute fact is that the business of realpolitik and the people who choose to engage with it is far more damaging and destructive than anything di Canio has ever done in his entire life." The logical extension of this is that DM should not and has no right ever to take a principled stand on anything.

i'm sort of comfortable with that. he took on a career with little to no place for principle, and made deals and friendships with people whose principles allow them to sanction atrocity. it's not either or tho, of course he's entitled to refuse to associate with di Canio. i think it's wryly amusing that he feels no need to associate with people whose crimes are far worse.

no need to refuse to associate.

"somebody has to make these terrible decisions" is pretty much always a terrible excuse imo.

Sunderland issue club statement. From what Di Canio says, one assumes he must have taken his own thoughts out of contest for that bit in his autobiography where he expressed his admiration for Mussolini.

"Something can happen many years ago but what counts is the facts. My life speaks for me. Of course it hurts me because people try to take your dignity and that is not fair.

“I believe in my pillars and I have values. What offends me more than anything is not because they touch me; they touch what my parents gave to me; the values they gave to me. This is not acceptable.

“What I can say is that if someone is hurt, I am sorry. But this didn’t come from me, it came from a big story that people put out in a different way to what it was.

“I never have a problem in my past. I expressed an opinion in an interview many years ago. Some pieces were taken for media convenience. They took my expression in a very, very negative way – but it was a long conversation and a long interview. It was not fair. I know it is a part of my job to do interviews because I am well-known, but sometimes it suits their purpose to put big headlines and a big story.

“I don’t have a problem with anyone. I haven’t had a problem in the past and I don’t know why I have to keep repeating my story, to be defending myself on something that doesn’t belong to me every time I change clubs. Talk about racism? That is absolutely stupid, stupid and ridiculous. The people who know me can change that idea quickly. When I was in England my best friends were Trevor Sinclair and Chris Powell, the Charlton manager – they can tell you everything about my character.

“I don’t want to talk about politics because it’s not my area. We are not in the Houses of Parliament, we are in a football club. I want to talk about sport. I want to talk about football, my players, the Board and the fans. My first priority is my family and my daughters, that’s obvious, and secondly to have the responsibility for thousands of people. This is my priority and I want to be focused on this aspect. I don’t want to talk any more about politics – I am not a politics person.”

out of context, not contest. sorry.

"I believe in my pillars"

but actually I think that statement is as good as it could be in the circs

politically, this kind of thing is always a daft sideshow. Meanwhile, apparently massive welfare 'reforms' and cuts start today. What DM thinks about them is a better guide to his politics.

"Some of my best friends are black!" says Paolo.

The full statement ends that neither Sunderland nor Di Canio will discuss any of this any more. BECAUSE IF WE STICK OUR FINGERS IN OUR EARS AND GO LA-LA-LA IT WILL ALL GO AWAY.

It will tho

idly wondering if all majority-Caucasian nations make a running joke out of 'some of my best friends are black' or if it is mainly a British and maybe American thing

actually I must admit DM has a perfect right to do what he's done
I don't disagree with his gesture (though I think it's empty as he had to quit anyway)

it's just that so much of this stuff is always phoney politics - always based on things that everyone really agrees about, and bringing no real contention.

Mussolini has been dead since c.1945. He was considered a buffoon even by his Axis colleagues (though I daresay he was awful). He is no threat to anyone in Britain now - he barely was when he was alive. It is idle to make gestures about him (here, at least, if not in Italy).

A better test of someone's principles is whether they'll take on someone who's dangerous and bad now. Like who? Well, how about another admirer of Mussolini (I think) - Silvio Berlusconi. He's also considered a buffoon, but has held power of various kinds in one of the greatest European nations for much of the last two decades. He has debased politics and increased corruption ... and he owns one of the world's greatest football clubs. Now that IS bad, and shameful, and painful for football.

Idea for a moral stand that would mean something and carry some genuine risk and controversy in the present: all the great clubs of Europe refuse to participate in a CL with AC Milan as long as Berlusconi owns it.

That's never gonna happen. But it would be more worthwhile, better for the game, and better for European politics, than any debate about something a good-but-never-quite-great footballer once said about Mussolini.

v disingenuous of di Canio to spin it as one interview from years ago

but actually I think that statement is as good as it could be in the circs

I disagree completely, it's actually very weedy given the circumstances.

politically, this kind of thing is always a daft sideshow. Meanwhile, apparently massive welfare 'reforms' and cuts start today. What DM thinks about them is a better guide to his politics.

In terms of wider politics, football itself is a daft sideshow. In footballing terms, this is important. Di Canio's response is very disingenuous, and as for all this 'it's about football not politics' stuff... tell that to the Spurs fans attacked by Italian fascists for supporting a "Jewish" club.

It's more likely that Di Canio is just an idiot rather than actually malicious. I still can't help but think of him as the thinking man's Joey Barton though.

I don't disagree with his gesture (though I think it's empty as he had to quit anyway)

It might well be empty, but I doubt he had to quit anyway. I don't think the responsibilities of the Vice-Chairman of Sunderland FC are that onerous.

I thought Joey Barton was the thinking man. Or is that all over with now? I might have missed the memo

Paolo di Canio is Joey Barton's Joey Barton

Italian fans no more attacked the spurs fan over the jewish link than germany cared about franz ferdinand

I don't know about their motives, guess none of us do -- but there does feel something circular or convenient about it, like they wanted to beat people up so it was very convenient to be able to say it was cos of anti-semitism (odd as that sounds)

it's not as though attacking Spurs fans actually generally means attacking Jewish people anyway

They were supposedly Roma fans, and Roma are supposedly the Italian Jewish club. Overlaying politics onto football doesn't work imo, it's nearly always dicks using it as an excuse.

that sounds kind of true to me, IK.

genuinely surprised at idea of PDC as 'thinking'

he's articulate and expresses himself in complex sentences, this is PhD level in football-world

has PDC recently advocated any behaviour that is illegal?

he did break into his former club or something, didn't he?

still maintain that Milliband disassociating himself is like some minor apparatchik from Mao's government disassociating themselves from Jane Fonda

Overlaying politics onto the behaviour of individuals p much always smacks of laziness at best

You prefer overlaying psychoanalysis onto the behaviour of individuals?

On SuperSport in Kenya right now, Gary Bailey is the pundit on tonight's game. His combover is a thing to be admired.

so that's what one does on holiday in Kenya