2008 Primaries Thread 2: THE QUICKENING

tracer not to be a dick but i think you need to stop telling us the window is hopelessly dirty and start telling us what is really on the other side of it. is there something about HRC that ppl on this thread are missing? what would an accurate assessment of her potential as president look like? or her 'character' if you like?

i ask half-rhetorically, tbh. my point is, the press has no responsibility to be even handed, it has a responsibility to describe the real. i think, yeah, it fails with depressing regularity on the latter, but let's not confuse some half-hearted success at the former with doing its actual job.

i've made up my mind on these candidates so i guess that's 'bias.' so take it in the abstract: it's not as if ANY two candidates are going to have exactly equal and opposite flaws and strengths, equally compelling and distracting histories, equally measured policy proposals -- it's this weird kind of media psychosis that insists that, in the interests of 'fairness,' we pretend that this is true.

xp: different polls say different things, you louche hobbyists.

was this posted? post/ABC poll:

“Democrats by more than a 2-1 margin say Hillary Clinton should stay in the presidential race even if she loses either the Texas or Ohio primary today. But if she fails in both, fewer than half say they’d want her to fight on. Many, in that case, have another idea for Clinton: the vice presidency.”

i don't know if there is really much to glean from this, especially when it's not clear how much people are paying attention to the particulars of this race (e.g. Many, in that case, have another idea for Clinton: the vice presidency., yea right)

gff 8080, asking the press to treat both sides of the argument 'equally' without testing to the veracity of each side is classic FOX-Rove bullshit, but sadly i don't think we're going to see the end of it during this election cycle

tom brokaw says 50 super delegates are abt to break for obama

http://www.salon.com/politics/war_room/?last_story=/politics/war_room/2008/03/04/obama_superdelegates

woah; that HUGE if it turns out to be true

they want this thing OVER

And, when you consider that in the past, the New Hampshire primary would have just ended a week or so ago, this toe-tapping impatience for a nominee is hardly justified. Among other things, it keeps the public interested in the race and focused on their party's candidates to the exclusion of the Republicans.

The downside that they fear is that one or the other candidate will commit a "murder/suicide" in a frantic attempt to gain the nomination - by knee-capping their opponent, succeeding in crippling them, but ultimately alienating the public's from both of them. I think that fear is overblown.

no matter what happens tonight, watch for the Obama Crew to drop their Feb fundraising total to the sound of a timpani drumroll & cymbal crash -- either to soften the storyline of clinton winning in case of one outcome, or to bolster his victory in case of the other. a 50 superdelegate bonus would have an even greater effect.

i hope to god matt y is right:

it seems that Hillary Clinton's consultants have won the spin war and two-thirds of Democrats want her to stay in the race if she wins either Ohio or Texas.

That said, this is the kind of thing that public opinion is just poorly informed about. Here's the reality of the situation. If Wednesday morning the only shot Clinton has at winning the nomination involves getting the superdelegates to overrule a large Obama lead in pledged delegates and/or somehow getting the Michigan and Florida delegations seated, then Clinton's chances of winning the nomination will still be extremely low, and the prospects of either person winning the general election would get quite a bit lower. Basically, Clinton would be completely burning years worth of goodwill built up by her and her husband in the progressive community and ending her shot at playing a leadership role in the Senate in exchange for a very marginal increase in the odds of her becoming president in January 2009. A choice like that would be bad for the country, bad for the party, and bad for Hillary Clinton. It would be good, primarily, for her campaign's highest-paid operatives who would keep getting their checks, and it would be good for John McCain.

I've thought about it, and I don't think she'll do it. I don't think she and Bill are that out of touch with reality, and I don't think that most of her key supporters are either. If her results today are good enough to give her a realistic shot at winning the nomination through winning primaries, then of course she'll stay in. But if the delegate math isn't there, then I think she'll get out.

asking the press to treat both sides of the argument 'equally' without testing to the veracity of each side is classic FOX-Rove bullshit

This is true as far as it goes, but I don't think that's the answer. I don't think the media should start making unsubstantiated criticism of Obama's personality or character either. If the media started to mention Obama's "questionable patriotism" and "extreme liberal views" with the same regularity that they mention Clinton's "unlikeableness", "manipulativeness", or "underhandedness", there would obviously be no gain in objectivity or truth - though there might arguably be a gain in "evenhandedness". I think the real solution is for the media to back off the subjective impressionism altogether. They should focus more on reporting the facts - the candidates' records, policies, statements, actions, etc. - without constantly resorting to telling us who's more likeable, or doing a pop-psychology analysis of their motivations for us.

Most Media Observers Side With Hillary Campaign Claim That Press Has Been Harder On Her

http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/horsesmouth/2008/03/most_media_obse.php

Basically, Clinton would be completely burning years worth of goodwill built up by her and her husband in the progressive community

WTF?

I guess that means idiots who don't know they're not progressive?

the press has been harder on Hillary? well that's newsworthy, seeing as she and Obama are exactly the same person running the same campaign. ffs.

Snap your fingers when you say that. Rhythmically.

Why should America listen to Jay-Z for any advice? The baloon is deflated. And this guy is an empty suite.

Nice try, Obama campaign. You aren;t in Chacago any more, where thuggery is accepted and Rezko signs the checks.

This Obama guy is desperate. What is this nonesense. Thank God we caught all his trash I can mantra. He is a lost candidate.

OBAMA IS A LIAR!!!!!!!!!!! I GUESS HE IS LIKE VERY OTHER POLITIAN

If I was constantly caught promising one thing, but doing another… I'd play it donn too!

Obama is just a toy action figure with patented speak action.
If you squeeze his hand he says one of three things:
I gave a speech once.
I always get misinterpreted.
I want to change the world.

What's he gonna say when he gets his hand squeezed by the president of Russia, China, North Korea, or Iran?

I want to say LOL, but I just can't laugh about this.

^^^ that was said by tom brokaw actually

the press will have a field day when the photos of Kim Jong-Il squeezing Obama's hand are published.

And this guy is an empty suite.

http://www.wcghotels.com/hotels/elpgw/images/stock-suite-empty-org.jpg

Thank God we caught all his trash I can mantra

http://yeswecanhas.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/03/3am-call.jpg

Also, Jay-Z robocall going out to Ohio voters.

I got 100 problems 'cause this bitch is one?

losing the nas vote

somebody must've posted the Jack Nicholson endorsement video, yeah?

so about the celebrity robocalls -- i assume there's at least a small amount of research into demographics to determine whether or not a particular caller would be useful? most people in my grandparents' neighborhood in ohio wouldn't have a fucking clue who jay-z is

HE IS LIKE VERY OTHER POLITIAN

lol an old hs friend going to school in ohio just emailed me all hyped cause he got a jay call

Barack-A-Wear

want to get really frustrated? http://www.techcrunch.com/2008/03/03/marc-andreessen-for-obama/

obligatory "Big Pimpin" joke

Is Jay-Z being pimped out in some weird way?

2:46pm EST and still no Drudge headline about voting irregularites.

Not for nothin never happen
I'll be forever mackin
Heart cold as assassin, I got no passion
I got no patience and I hate waitin'
'O' get your ass in
An let's ri i i i iide

I read homie's blog entry last night, and I guess if you decontextualize them like that "normal" and "smart" can come off as crytoracist comments ala "clean & articulate," but in context they struck me as measured considerations: guy is not just a politician who knows how to say the right things to the right people, he's an intelligent person who seems genuinely interested in his audience and doesn't come across as "above" anyone he speaks with.

Unless I'm missing your point, YGS?

xxxxxp

oh no i meant the comments! i like marc andreeson.

http://media.gallup.com/poll/graphs/030408DailyUpdateGraph1.gif

there must be voting today.

lolz at Josh Marshall saying he feels Hillary's been maltreated when he passes on Drudge smears against her verbatim

what?

tracer, i hate to sound like a mommy, but don't you ever have anything nice to say about anything?

I thought it was very nice when he laughed at my Hillary/Barack joke upthread.

lolz at Josh Marshall saying he feels Hillary's been maltreated when he passes on Drudge smears against her verbatim

-- Tracer Hand, Tuesday, March 4, 2008 8:23 PM (12 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

no seriously tracer. i read this site just about every day, i must have missed something? what are you talking about?

i can't discern any stable position tracer has taken other than his preference for sifting for supposed hypocrisy and for weird devil's advocacy of hillary. sure, the horse of the state needs a gadfly, but there's a difference between critical insight and chafing cynicism, you know?

clinton's daily schedules as first lady are set to be released by march 20.

Jan. 29, 1993-- Kick off 2008 Presidential campaign.

my stable position: the national political press in america is almost always wrong about everything, including what counts as news

Waste my vote on John Edwards? More like waste my vote on John HAIRCUT.

so let's follow your advice and only refer to the press to make fun of this or that article.

(xpost)

Amirite? *offers a fist to bump*

xp