Moneyball won't win the Premiership 2012-13

Yeah we basically went to the World Cup with Peter Crouch as our only fit striker. We were that desperate for quality and people thought England could win the World Cup.

My thoughts on him was pretty much always that his first touch was dreadful but his pace meant that it didn't really matter because knocking the ball into space always an option since he got there first. Then as soon as injuries started he lost the pace, and it became evident that he couldn't actually control the ball very well.

On the other hand, still looked like a good goalmouth predator when he actually got a game. Unfortunately he never played in a side with the luxury of having someone that could only do that job.

otm

fowler not big, not that quick, exceptional striker, great feet, great player

owen incredible pace, timing, composure and very good touch xp aldo we obv disagree here

owen scored 118 goals in 216 games for liverpool. 40 in 89 for england, and yeah we all know post injuries he wasnt great but those are serious figures

Onimo otm

I think he had a great run from 1997-98 Liverpool until Madrid 2005 where he did well despite either not being used or not being used where he was most useful. He started ok with Newcastle but a couple of injuries killed his first season and he may as well have chucked it then, despite what it said in the brochure.

Has rooney outscored owen even yet? Playing as the tapin focal point in a league-challenging outfit?

By a long way, I'd guess

Owen: league games/goals = 360/163; total club games/goals = 480/222
best seasons 2001/02 and 2002/03 = 19 league goals, 28 total goals

Fowler (not counting Australia and Thailand): league games/goals = 391/166; total club games/goals = 515/230
best season 1995/96: 28 league goals, 36 total

Rooney 472/214 without spending seven seasons in the hamstrung wilderness suggests Owen>>>>>>>>>>>>>Rooney

Rooney: league games/goals: 339/156; total club games/goals = 472/214
best seasons 2009/10 and 2011/12 - 26/27 league goals, 34 total

the problem with making direct comparisons of the stats is it doesn't allow for quality of team/opposition or a bunch of other stuff. but i think those figures show Owen was a sight better than meh when he was on song

40 in 89 for england

an almost crouchian ratio, this.

rooney and owen with remarkably similar appearance and goal records, if wazza values symmetry at all he should retire at the end of the season too.

i think those figures show Owen was a sight better than meh when he was on song

A sight better than meh, yes, but not Ballon d'Or material.

Fowler never got much of an England look-in, is that purely down to being Shearer's contemporary?

I think a fully fit Owen playing for Man Utd for a decade would score a lot more than Rooney has.

Rooney's two 30+ goals seasons are notable for being outliers in his otherwise 15-20 a season career. Owen scored 23+ in five seasons out of six before things started going to shit.

Yeah Owen had ridiculous pace but so does Theo Walcott and a lot of other players who don't get near 20 goals a season, his finishing and awareness were exceptionally good. But the game changed and he didn't have enough other attributes to his game to compensate for that lack of pace.

Fowler never got much of an England look-in, is that purely down to being Shearer's contemporary?

Not just Shearer, there was also Sheringham who was very good at what he did, so both strikers' places were taken. Added to that you had Andy Cole, Les Ferdinand and Ian Wright at their peaks.

I know, it's kind of weird seeing that list then a decade later struggling to find four for a tourney

Andrew Cole, now there's a massively overrated goal poacher

Fowler never got much of an England look-in, is that purely down to being Shearer's contemporary?

Along with Collymore, Sheringham, Wright, Cole, Owen, Ferdinand and probably some others I've forgotten it really was an amazing crop of goalscorers England had at their disposal. So much so that no-one batted an eyelid when Hoddle cunted Sutton into touch.

xp what NB&S said

Cole was a brilliant player

Goal poachers are never overrated. They fulfil a niche function and they're very hard to find and feed properly.
They are invariably dismissed by anyone whose team they don't play for.

loads of countries were stacked with strikers in the 90s tbf, that were t'game in them days

all playing computer games now

Kosovo ruined everything

They're harder to come by now fewer teams play 4-4-2 and if you have one striker it's better to play one with a lot more to their game, so the very idea of them has gone out of fashion now. Even in teams that still play 4-4-2, you still see Danny Welbeck getting a lot more play that Javier Hernandez despite the latter being a much better goalscorer.

Cole's miss ratio felt tremendous at the time, plus Yorke must've developed a hunch from carrying him

The whole "needs five chances to score" thing was total bullshit. Andy Cole was an amazing finisher. Of course he missed sitters, as do all strikers who get themselves in great positions over and over again, including Shearer.

The whole thing about strikers being a dying breed is depressing. We'd better shift Hooper quick before the market disappears completely. I've noticed lately he's coming deep for the ball and scoring fewer goals, like he needs to convince people there's more to his game. I'd rather he stayed in selfish cunt mode tbh.

The whole "needs five chances to score" thing was total bullshit. Andy Cole was an amazing finisher.

Yeah, I think I said this to Dave Boyle on here many years ago. He had one shit season (his first full one at United, 95/96) where he kept snatching at chances and missing) and the whole reputation comes from that.

you might be right, a lot of the 90s is a blur, but i def remember at one time breathing a sigh of relief when the ball fell to Cole during dangerous passages of play

I reckon it's all down to the one game at West Ham, if he'd scored then he'd've got let off a bad run afterwards; whereas the bad run confirmed the hapless aura of that day.

Years Team Apps† (Gls)†
1989–1992 Arsenal 1 (0)
1991 → Fulham (loan) 13 (3)
1992–1993 Bristol City 41 (20)
1993–1995 Newcastle United 70 (55)

1995–2001	Manchester United	195	(93)
2001–2004	Blackburn 	83	(27)
2004–2005	Fulham	        31	(12)
2005–2006	Manchester City	22	(9)
2006–2007	Portsmouth	18	(3)
2007 → Birmingham City (loan)	5	(1)
2007–2008	Sunderland	7	(0)
2008	→ Burnley (loan)	13	(6)
2008	Nottingham Forest	10	(0)
Total		                509	 (229)

missed 1145 chances iirc

gah fucked that up

missed 340 in 85 games for newcastle

Goal poachers are never overrated

Probably true but then there's Kris Boyd

half of those 6 burnley goals were from a bastard vintage last hurrah performance at loftus road

Along with Collymore, Sheringham, Wright, Cole, Owen, Ferdinand and probably some others I've forgotten it really was an amazing crop of goalscorers England had at their disposal.

Stan Collymore look a bit of an odd one out there. Was he that good for Liverpool / Forest? 97-98 was the first season I ever watched, and the guy was pretty much my first exposure to the "type" of the gifted arsehole capable of suddenly and apparently out of nothing being very very good, better than anyone else on the pitch, but content to spend 99% of the time wandering about looking like he'd rather be anywhere else in the world but on the pitch. But in spite of my fondish memories of him as a mercurial rogue with a chequered private life, wikipedia investigations assure me that he only scored 7 league goals during his 4 years at the club, what the fuck is that? Always knew he was a waste of money but never thought of Stan the Man as a million-a-goal flop.

Strange that when it comes to mid-late '90s Villa strikers it's Savo Milosevic that eats all the criticism. Collymore seems to get away with it in comparison. Except for the whole battering his girlfriends and going out dogging thing, of course, he caught a fair bit of flak for that stuff. Tho probs not enough love for some of his punditry - http://www.mirrorfootball.co.uk/opinion/columnists/stan-collymore/Stan-Collymore-column-Why-Arsenal-star-Nicklas-Bendtner-will-be-a-Premier-League-superstar-plus-it-s-time-for-Aston-Villa-s-back-up-boys-to-shine-article355273.html

I do believe Bendtner will be one of the top strikers in the Premier League in two or three years’ time.

And I will be the first to say to Arsenal fans that I told them so.

stan collymore is tough to measure, potentially as good as any of them (i mean shearer stands out for sheer effectiveness and consistency, not sure how potential goes into the mix) but obviously a fucking shambles mentally throughout what would have been his peak. but talent not in question vs say fowler, sheringham et all imo, definitely up there.

Collymore and Redman are the only two MTV Cribs I've seen that were clearly filmed in their own house rather than a rented mansion. I don't watch it much right enough.

Anyway, first impressions are everything in this game. Collymore (autocorrect: folly ore) emerged a beast, a pre-Ronaldo Ronaldo, so everything afterwards was an aberration, a betrayal of his true state. Whereas Diego Forlan, Savo Milosevic and David de Gea, those will always be bad players.

The receptionist at a holiday hotel in St. Lucia looked slightly puzzled when she took down a telephone message for Liverpool manager Roy Evans. It said: "The Man from Del Monte would like to say Yes."

When Roy read the coded message, which had been delivered to his room, he was ecstatic. It meant his major summer target, Stan Collymore, had agreed to join the Reds.

"The cloak-and-dagger stuff was necessary, even if it did give people the impression that I was a dealer in canned fruit! We didn't want the news broadcasting until he had actually put pen to paper. He was the man we wanted and the market price had to be met. Other clubs were also bidding. I believe a great relationship will be built up between Stan and our supporters."

That explains the cup final suits.

and the rise of jason lee at forest in his stead

hahaha

Whereas Diego Forlan, Savo Milosevic and David de Gea, those will always be bad players.

the Bale-style makeover can help a player get over this. Maybe de Gea should become a right back.

Slaying foreigners for merrie englande is a way out of the funk, it's true. Didn't Bale's naissance start with the Inter game? De Gea gets some delayed respect for denying Madrid recently. Forlan's golden boots are worth nowt.

My Villa-supporting mate, ecstatic at the news of Collymore's signing, bet me a fiver that he would score 40 goals for Villa that season. Candy off a baby.

Rooney is also 5th all-time in assists in the PL. I doubt Owen even reached double figures. Not that you care (and of course 90% of those assists were just him giving the ball to Ronaldo etc etc)