the piece has three movements though, so in pop-sensibility terms it shd be compared w.three singles not one!
― mark s (mark s), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 17:10 (nineteen years ago) link
Why worst? They could be the best. Or, in fact, would be no better or worse than any other circumstances.
We're all listening to 4'33 all the time, if we just bother to listen. :)
― JimD (JimD), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 17:10 (nineteen years ago) link
― jaymc (jaymc), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 17:12 (nineteen years ago) link
― peter smith (plsmith), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 17:13 (nineteen years ago) link
There's stuff about it in Cage's book Silence. And also in Michael Nyman's book Experimental Music: Cage and Beyond
― JimD (JimD), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 17:13 (nineteen years ago) link
― Michael White (Hereward), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 17:13 (nineteen years ago) link
anyway rauschenberg white canvases were part of the "happenings" (anachronistic word alert) that cage staged at black mountain college, and the the overall "whatever happens is part of the piece" open ambience aesthetic def applied there
(tho cage did not like the audience staging their own disruptions, interestingly enough) (not that this started hapnin till the late 60s)
― mark s (mark s), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 17:14 (nineteen years ago) link
good thing he didn't make it several lifetimes long.
― Fish fingers all in a line (kenan), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 17:16 (nineteen years ago) link
― mark s (mark s), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 17:16 (nineteen years ago) link
its title is the totality of the playing instructions
― mark s (mark s), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 17:17 (nineteen years ago) link
― Fish fingers all in a line (kenan), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 17:17 (nineteen years ago) link
― Michael White (Hereward), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 17:18 (nineteen years ago) link
― mark s (mark s), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 17:19 (nineteen years ago) link
― mark s (mark s), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 17:20 (nineteen years ago) link
xpost
Hahahaha!
― Michael White (Hereward), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 17:21 (nineteen years ago) link
Ah, you're no doubt right about that, yes. I've only seen them in the NY Guggenheim, under harsh fluourescent lighting, and this just never occured to me, but yep, of course, makes lots of sense.
jim ru sure the LENGTH-determined-by-chance is in nyman and silence?
Um...those were the places where I thought I'd read it, and seem the most likely sources. You're making me doubt myself slightly now, but I'd definitely seen this explanation before, and it wasn't at wikipedia. I'll check when I get home tonight.
― JimD (JimD), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 17:22 (nineteen years ago) link
There is no such thing as absolute silence. If you have your record player off, your room and the world are still filled with noise. However, 4'33" is not a composition, it's a field recording. The only element of composition is the choice to do nothing, but even Cage himself admits that the sound of the audience is the focus of the piece. I am happy to accept 4'33" as a field recording, but so long as people insist that it is a composition, I will continue to make jokes about it. Thx, bye.
― polyphonic (polyphonic), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 17:23 (nineteen years ago) link
― Michael White (Hereward), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 17:24 (nineteen years ago) link
(i think it is closer to the erased drawings, with its non nihillist implications of negation)
― anthony, Tuesday, 15 February 2005 17:26 (nineteen years ago) link
― n/a (Nick A.), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 17:27 (nineteen years ago) link
― Michael White (Hereward), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 17:29 (nineteen years ago) link
― o. nate (onate), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 17:30 (nineteen years ago) link
― mark s (mark s), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 17:31 (nineteen years ago) link
― jaymc (jaymc), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 17:36 (nineteen years ago) link
― dave225 (Dave225), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 17:37 (nineteen years ago) link
― polyphonic (polyphonic), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 17:39 (nineteen years ago) link
― n/a (Nick A.), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 17:39 (nineteen years ago) link
― jaymc (jaymc), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 17:41 (nineteen years ago) link
― mark s (mark s), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 17:41 (nineteen years ago) link
― o. nate (onate), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 17:43 (nineteen years ago) link
― mark s (mark s), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 17:45 (nineteen years ago) link
― JimD (JimD), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 17:45 (nineteen years ago) link
― nabiscothingy (nory), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 17:47 (nineteen years ago) link
― n/a (Nick A.), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 17:48 (nineteen years ago) link
If that was Cage's intention with the piece, then I'd have to say he failed, because despite my familiarity with his piece, I still don't think of any random 4 minutes of ambient noise as being music. I mean you could paraphrase Cage's composition as basically the statement: "Everything is music!" To which the natural response would be: "No, it isn't." Which is not to say it isn't a clever gesture - probably even more clever than Duchamp's famous urinal, when you think about it.
― o. nate (onate), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 17:53 (nineteen years ago) link
― Fish fingers all in a line (kenan), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 17:56 (nineteen years ago) link
interesting that with computer technology you can make a DDD version of 4'33" leaving you with a version tainted only by the playback mechanism and not the recording mechanism. 'tainted'. would compress down to an mp3 pretty well too 8)
― koogs (koogs), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 17:56 (nineteen years ago) link
Just as well, as I've got some of his that are right stinkers
― Dadaismus (Dada), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 18:00 (nineteen years ago) link
― Douglas (Douglas), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 18:35 (nineteen years ago) link
― Dadaismus (Dada), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 18:37 (nineteen years ago) link
Mike Batt to thread!
― elwisty (elwisty), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 18:45 (nineteen years ago) link
yeah, in '52 at a small chapel in the woods near woodstock, ny.
I think a big part of the idea behind the piece is to force the audience to think of the ambient noise as music, as no different from other "compositions."
er, not exactly. you could say maybe his imaginary landscape radio pieces achieved that specific goal more closely, but 4'33" is more about performance than sound, obv.
thank you douglas for bringing up 0'00", which is another variation on the theme.
anyway, 4'33" (and many other cage pieces) really exploded the entire musical world open to consider things that had only been the realm of obscure wackos (like, say, the futurists). mark s is gonna hate me for this simplification, but it led directly to fluxus which led directly to the dream syndicate which led directly to the velvet underground (among many many other musical things), etc., etc., you know the drill.
― hstencil (hstencil), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 18:45 (nineteen years ago) link
― hstencil (hstencil), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 18:46 (nineteen years ago) link
― elwisty (elwisty), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 18:52 (nineteen years ago) link
― elwisty (elwisty), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 18:54 (nineteen years ago) link
― mark s (mark s), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 18:54 (nineteen years ago) link
― elwisty (elwisty), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 19:01 (nineteen years ago) link
It's tonight! The theme is "bear suits"! I would go, but I'm too poor to afford the admission fee of $5. -- n/a (nu...), February 15th, 2005 11:48 AM. (Nick A.) (link)
Nick's right. I'm probably gonna talk about The College Dropout and Marcel Dzama and my awesome idea for a New Yorker cartoon. However: I'm worried that the show itself has been getting into a rut, though, lately. Too many of the same performers, not enough outside interest being built up. If anyone knows of any artists or performers in Chicago that might want to read poetry/play music/show a film/tell jokes/etc. for 15 minutes on stage at a rock club, send 'em my way!
― jaymc (jaymc), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 19:09 (nineteen years ago) link
wow I was annoying― na (NA), Thursday, July 2, 2020 2:38 PM (eight hours ago)
― na (NA), Thursday, July 2, 2020 2:38 PM (eight hours ago)
new board description?
― Jersey Al (Albert R. Broccoli), Friday, 3 July 2020 05:59 (three years ago) link
no one has actually watched "salo" but everyone keeps it in their back pocket for easy edgy responses to tweets like "what movie do you wish they would make into a theme park ride?"
― na (NA), Tuesday, 20 October 2020 18:20 (three years ago) link
na otm, I was struck this summer by how many Twitter "personalities" were suddenly left with no choice but to demonstratively tweet about being "forced" to watch Salo on exterior projection screens.
― soaring skrrrtpeggios (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Tuesday, 20 October 2020 18:25 (three years ago) link
I mean, maybe it wasn't a bunch of people, but I distinctly remember at least three incidents where people were tweeting about how embarrassing it was that their "film clubs" just happened to have already picked Salo for a screening but, "oops pandemic" and they just had to screen it outdoors, "haha how transgressive!".
― soaring skrrrtpeggios (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Tuesday, 20 October 2020 18:30 (three years ago) link
we watched a bootleg VHS dub of salo in film school back in the day, the prof was very proud & titillated to have sourced an uncut copy, and afterwards was absolutely absolutely with me when i wouldnt concede my view that we probably could have just read about it instead of actually being made to sit through it
― turn the jawhatthefuckever on (One Eye Open), Tuesday, 20 October 2020 18:58 (three years ago) link
"abosultely furious" with me, that is. (getting flustered recalling all the transgressive depravity.)
― turn the jawhatthefuckever on (One Eye Open), Tuesday, 20 October 2020 18:59 (three years ago) link
A friend of mine watched Salo in film class. Reaching for his lunch, he was dismayed to find it contained chocolate pudding.
― Halfway there but for you, Tuesday, 20 October 2020 19:04 (three years ago) link
I put a performance of 4’33” on my “is this music?” playlist for discussion in class and one of my students brought it up today. She was like “what’s the deal with the one where the people just sit there??” And we talked about it. No regrets for bringing it up bc it illustrated a useful concept for me: “humor” in music that’s not verbal humor. Good discussion!!
― weird woman in a bar (La Lechera), Thursday, 22 October 2020 23:57 (three years ago) link
Also now if anyone ever references it, they’ll understand.
― weird woman in a bar (La Lechera), Thursday, 22 October 2020 23:58 (three years ago) link