what the fuck am i getting myself into with this grad school stuff

grad school - american equivalent of a uk masters degree?

yeah, I saw U Arizona's bitter letter today announcing their big cuts, and reporting how much more than a dollar each dollar they're given yields. This is a good start. My own view, not very popular amongst my colleagues, is that we academics need to do a much better jobs of arguing for our importance. One way of doing that is to argue our *financial* importance. I'm pretty confident that will work out, though to include the humanities on board you'll need to be delicate. And I don't want to concede the Marxist point that the only value that matters is financial. But for the sake of argument right now, I'd rather we grant that and make the best case we can. One reason I'm willing to grant that is that I don't think that we in the humanities have a good ready-made non-financial argument for our value that will convince your "putative envious skeptics". Just saying "it makes you a better person" doesn't cut it in the US, and it doesn't pay to whine about that. I'm optimistic we can find such a case, but it will take real work, and will probably take people who didn't grow up pampered or who don't associate with common people today (unfortunately, many academics fail this).

re. grad school: when I use this term, it means education after bachelor's degree work, for instance work toward a master's or doctoral degree (UK, US, etc.).

my own embittered point of view is that people who grew up pampered are disproportionately represented in the academic industry's power precincts (as everywhere else) and a pet hobbyhorse of theirs is to perpetuate an aristocratic disregard of financial matters, both because they can and also if they were interested in practical money issues, they'd have gone to law school or business school or just straight into high finance. i think that getting these chairs and deans and academic all-stars to think practically enough to deal effectively with the harsh realities of the market would result in removing one of the chief professional privileges of their calling that distinguishes it from law and business and hence would be no easy feat

I think it depends on what you count as pampered. I was thinking by that, rich. But I could see someone thinking pampered anyone raised in a median income family, who didn't have to worry about homelessness or having enough to eat. I don't know a lot of rich people in academia; I know some, but fewer than I know among my college peers. But I don't know anyone who grew up poor. My parents didn't go to college, and in my generational cohort that puts me in the least privileged segment.

As to financial status now: everyone I know thinks about their practical money issues. What other practical money issues should they think about? Job prospects for grad students? Sure, I agree. But I'm not sure that's what you're getting at.

in my state there is solid evidence that each dollar invested in the university system yields a dollar and then some back, eventually.

Empirical evidence suggests this is true, however I believe people have a distorted opinion of what portions of the university system is financial valuable—unfortunately for some on this message boards, it’s not the humanities, or even a majority of graduate programs. Hell, most universities don’t even offer a worthwhile multiplier.

By most estimates the greatest multiplier is at the bottom—community colleges. Hilariously, economists and policy wonks have known this to be the case for nearly twenty years but little (or, nothing) has been done to get every able American into a community college program. One reason is the stigma attached, the other, and most common is cost.

It’s strange to think that our parent’s generation went to college on the GI or Pell. Today the Pell does not cover tuition for even the poorest student at a moderately priced community college. Reform is approaching however, The American Opportunity Tax Credit proposed by Obama, would in most instances make a community college free for all students willing to provide community service post-graduation and I honestly believe, if that tax credit sees passage, the multiplier spurred will be far more significant than anything in the stimulus bill (aside from credit transfers, obviously).

allen, that's really interesting and i hope that happens. euler, i meant to broadly paint the people in charge, who set agendas, as hailing from the pampered classes, by which i mean at least that their parents paid for their undergrad and grad tuition and housing or could have if necessary, thereby sheltering them from the dismal experience of dead end part time jobs even while borrowing tragic sums of cash. i'm not basing that on any empirical evidence, mind you, just my own experience

I am really enjoying myself here, at the moment, coming back to school and coming to CMU seems to have been the best decision I have made. The danger now is that I drift over into an EPP Phd (Engineering and public policy) and never leave.

REALLY not into grad school right now.

Like, screaming pissed off furious at it.

my own embittered point of view is that people who grew up pampered are disproportionately represented in the academic industry's power precincts (as everywhere else) and a pet hobbyhorse of theirs is to perpetuate an aristocratic disregard of financial matters, both because they can and also if they were interested in practical money issues,

― kamerad, Tuesday, February 10, 2009 2:57 AM (18 hours ago) Bookmark

Truth! They also tend to be very boring and socially competitive.

You guys I got into a grad school today! Still waiting to hear back from some others, so not sure if I'll go to that one, but it's exciting. I have options. Options to move halfway across the country to the middle of nowhere and do obscure exciting archaeology stuff. :D

Hey, congrats!

congratulations! my resentful bitching notwithstanding, it can be quite an amazing experience

Congratulations.

Congratulations, Maria!

yeah, congratulations! Have fun!

Way to go Maria! Welcome to the beginning of a few years of posting on the "what the fuck am I getting myself into this grad school stuff" thread. :)

Got into my graduate program of first choice this morning! Woo!

woo.

That's awesome Mordy!

Which program was it? Do you have to move to a new city?

NYU Performance Studies. And no moving! Same city I'm currently in :)

You're going to be surfing out this gnarly recession wave while chumps like me try to find jobs!

grad school - american equivalent of a uk masters degree?

― fucks capacitor (a-bomb), Tuesday, February 10, 2009 2:05 AM (2 weeks ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

not biting

The way looking for an internship is going I am feeling like signing up to do a second masters or a phd looks like a good plan.

I always have it in my mind that Ed was going to be one of those scrappy scientists at NJIT, but I don't think you ever ended up there, did you, Ed?

No I am at CMU, passed over transport planning for Engineering and Technology Innovation managment and I'm now looking to see if a Masters in Energy or a Phd in Engineering and Public Policy might be a good next step.

Ed, maybe N3lli3 could help with internship leads, as she is SCIENCE person also policy wonk?

Good call, let me send over some details. (I have already applied to work for Dr Chu)

!!! Well, at any rate, I think she could get to him in under 5 phone calls!

How are you funding all this, Ed?

If it's possible to do a Phd in the US without going massively into debt I'd definitely consider it. The worst part of this recession for me is feeling trapped in current job against a deadline of being booted in the next 12 months or so.

it would depend on what the phd is in. dissertation fellowships in the humanities are drying up due to the recession. also phd programs are long, boring commitments; i really don't think it's a good idea to enroll in one just to escape the economy.

Masters I am paying for. Phd would be paid for if I could get on it, they only offer places if they can fund them. And don't worry, I wouldn't be enrolling to escape the economy, I would be enrolling because I would get to do an interesting and substantive piece of research into something I care about.

Me too, there's plenty in the public policy area that I'd be interested in and that's potentially worthwhile.

Steven Chu is a solid bro to physicists everywhere.

i will probably pass by mordy a couple of times a week next year and NOT KNOW IT ooooh

We could share photos now tho, and then we'll recognize each other!

Congrats Mordy!

Ed, Engineering & Public Policy sounds really interesting and useful.

As for funding PhDs in the US, it's looking fairly likely that I'll end up going for a PhD instead of an MA next year just because the PhD will be paid for. Can't decide whether this is a TERRIBLE IDEA or not because it's such a huge commitment (I mean, I could start and drop out, but that might end up more traumatic than just doing one thing or the other).

ok so apparently the 'evaluation' section of my thesis (which is a boring management residency report, not anything groundbreaking or thought-provoking) in which i identify strengths and weaknesses and offer suggestions for improvement is 'too crticial' and does not suck up to my program heads enough by saying how all the classes i took prepared me for my job. my adviser has asked me to 'cut the critical stuff' and 'focus on strengths and solutions for weaknesses,' but i don't understand how you can propose a solution for a weakness without identifying it, which is, i believe, inherently critical! constructive criticism, but still criticism. i don't want my thesis to be a sham :(

so instead i'm gonna whine about it here.

this reminds me of a class i took on derrida... the prof had a huge boner for derrida (as well as cute grad student chicks, which was gross), and anytime anyone approached derrida with anything but awed reverence, he freaked out and accused us of trying to make names for ourselves by ripping derrida apart. i finally gave up and wrote a retarded paper about deconstruction that had a lot of useless wordplay, and he gave me an A+. uc irvine doesn't even have a+ as a grade, but he gave me one anyway.

unfortunately, concerning your predicament, i don't have any suggestions that you probably haven't already thought of.

so i'm done with this shit, hallefuckinglujah

ugh. it's like, i have spent 2 years rounding out my skills as a professional in this field, and it should be a GOOD thing that i can identify this stuff and find solutions as, to me, it means i may be prepared/ready to take on these challenges (in this org or another one). i feel like it hurts my professional credibility to make it some 'this was all roses and fantastic and if i HAD to choose 1 bad thing it would be that maybe the water in the bathroom is a tiny bit too cold when you first turn the tap on!'

like what if a future employer asks to see it? and this shit will be on file @ my college for all eternity, for anyone to look at.

Hahaha, ytth, no names to be mentioned of course but I can guess among numerous candidates. (My argument has long been that Derrida was a clever humorist but that a lot of people missed the humor...)

zing?

zing = he's dead now.

i am quite enjoying my program right now! being taught by some of the best...

now if only the admins would stop being such quacked fools

my adviser left me two five-minute long messages today about problems with my thesis. the "problems" she refers to were there in the first draft, which she said was excellent and well-written. i am so livid i don't know what to do. she has just cost me 4.5 weeks.