salon vs. slate vs. atlantic

like you can talk about 'the realities of journalism' all you want but there's also _what_ do you want to publish, and _why_, and there's not even a glancing recognition of that.

I mean his stated goal is to protect the illustrious property that is 'the atlantic'

but I mean what is 'the atlantic' anymore, it's a brand and a website address

i hope that guy is haunted by the ghost of ralph waldo emerson.

This is my institution, my connection to a legacy and a lineage. And if you come after one of us, if you come after it, I am not going to take it lying down.

stfu

but I mean what is 'the atlantic' anymore, it's a brand and a website address

Lia Mahkara•3 hours ago

I can't help but think someone's being paid by the word...

13△1▽

lol

the comments section there is a fascinating set of people

here's a twitter feed for u hoos: http://twitter.com/AvoidComments

the new new republic site is really nice

I haven't read very much since bored rich dude took over but it does look good on an ipad

Thayer is unconvinced. "I was under the assumption that such practices were abolished when the [13th] amendment to the Constitution was ratified," he said. "I don't need the exposure. What I need is to pay my fucking rent. Exposure doesn't feed my fucking children. Fuck that!" he continued, adding that he can't even afford to get online. "I actually stick my fucking computer out the window to use the neighbor's Internet connection. I simply can't make a fucking living."

reads like the onion

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2013/03/nate-thayer-atlantic-charged-with-plagiarism.html

i read all the various stuff involved -- it doesn't seem to be plagarism. there's some poor citation and sourcing involved, but he cites things, he did reach out to and interview various people (and they've been contacted and confirmed this), and there's some fairly direct paraphrasing but it makes sure to paraphrase and not directly steal. duns also appears to be a total jerk, from browsing his blog. which doesn't make him wrong, but does make him a jerk.

thought this was pretty otm http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2013/03/lucrative-work-for-free-opportunity/273846

its clear that the guy shouldve just said 'i dont have the time for this cant you just excerpt and link like everyone else' but hes obvs having kinda a hard time and it hit a nerve which is understandable

i doubt much online journalism published would hold up to that level of scrutiny

it seems p obvs its not plagiarism, especially since he personally brought up the problem of n korea losing some of his attribution links in the editing process before any of this broke

i mean when north korea is yr editor you have to expect some of this stuff

feel bad for all my freelance bloggo journalists out there, dont shoot anybody, please

idk i kind of think writers should get paid

this is a p unfortunate takeaway

It turns out that when Thayer decried "the state of journalism in 2013," he was unintentionally shining a light on issues much larger than not paying freelancers.

btw: http://whopays.tumblr.com/

idk i kind of think writers should get paid

― flopson, Sunday, March 10, 2013 1:18 PM (6 minutes ago) Bookmark

for sure, the writings been on the wall for online journos since like 2001, idk

not rly into that tnc post i gotta say. also, like, imo u can't listen to media elite like him or yglesias on this topic. even if he includes anecdotes about personal hardships, like, they have to defend the system that made their careers in some way, if at least some cop-out like "hey, it's not perfect rly what is." it's like an attribution error or whatever, impossible to imagine they would be writing the same thing about the free work they had done for exposure if they were still poor and not getting paid mad ca$h

seems like the market cannot support much of any content creation anymore, we should just stop pretending that capitalism works and move to the renaissance artist/patron model, would any millionaires like to pay me money to live inside a wal-mart for a year and blog about it - i have a paypal account you can just send the money to

w0rd

i dont think tnc is as much 'defending' the system as just sort of laying down the grim truth about it, obv he's on the other side of the chasm, but if u are trying to support a family and make a living off of being an internet freelancer, gotta say that like exactly 8 people in america are doing that rite now and 100s of 1000s of kids graduate college each each with the unfortch mindset of doing just that, good luck usa

i mean hey its great work if u can get it rite? if u can get it

i only read thought catalog

yeah i guess he's not coming strong enough on the writers should be paid part. it's like, idk imagine tnc's conclusion applied any other field. established scientist: "i can't afford to feed my children" tnc: "u shld be paid a token amount, btw where i work we are hiring more scientists than ever before & nothing is perfect"

scientists r being squeezed too aren't they?

lots of journalists get paid, freelance journalists not so much, there are lots of jobs that pay better, as for what should be happening who tf knows, its hardly an indightment of capatalism

capitalism, man *flips capitalism the bird*

I mean lots of people have asked me to design stuff for them for free over the years I never said gdamn capitalism I jus usually said no, I imagine this happens w a lot of jobs, most people just don't have a big platform to complain abt it or the self regard to think their job is the foundation of civilization

ha dayo I know you said that a least somewhat in jest ive just been fighting w Chavez apologists and I'm so sick of 'capitalism, man'

remembering these lagoon posts for when the ilx revolution comes

bring it commies, revolution aint no hs debate club u dickholes

I never said gdamn capitalism I jus usually said no,

v counterrevolutionary of u lagoon

I ride for big government liberalism, socialists were never nice people

when the revolution comes the capitalists will design the memes that we mock them with

the democratization of meme design has destroyed graphic design, designers deserve to be paid

stop pretending that capitalism works and move to the renaissance artist/patron model

patrons expect a lot for their money. if you were a painter, they could wallow in the exclusive privilege of hanging your stuff on their walls and the rabble never getting to see it. as a writer the only things you can deliver to a patron are groveling praise and a thimbleful of prestige. writers never could wring much out of the patronage model.

I ride for big government liberalism, socialists were never nice people

― lag∞n, Sunday, March 10, 2013 2:04 PM (5 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

yeah but nice liberals in power just let other not nice people become powerful or ascribe a not nice outcome to some impersonal mechanism. same effect might as well cut to the chase imo

at least u can satisfyingly locate target of blame

~exactly~

the problem with tnc's post is he's a commentator, basically. he gets paid to read a whole bunch of things and then distill them down. and when he runs dry of important things he can blog other sorts of things, because he's also building a community in the comments section and he can jump in and moderate their discussions, etc. And when he writes for somewhere else, he's also basically extending what he does -- blogging and commentary. Thayer does reportage. it's a different gig. posts/articles individually take more time and research (closer to tnc's actual print articles as opposed to blogs). it's one thing to _blog_ for free on occasion to get exposure, or knock out opinion pieces, but it's another to actually _report_ for that purpose. especially since tnc is a name draw in a way that thayer and almost everyone else won't be and don't intend to be. it's pretty clear he's not intending to build some _personal_ brand, but instead his "brand" is that editors know him and give him paid work to do in-depth reporting in the places he covers.

so if you're doing what tnc does, his advice isn't bad. but that's not the only thing to do or be.

'the Atlantic has more full-time employees than ever' is a disingenuous line of reasoning cause the atlantic made one of the single most successful print-to-digital transitions and is thus one of the least representative old school media properties.

tip for nate Thayer: write more abt gender essentialism

'what do you mean there are no full-time jobs, cracked.com is hiring 5 new editors' xp

nate I want to point out gawker is hiring & nick Denton wants to give u money right now