GIRLS talk (the Lena Dunham thread)

not sure how i feel about the big reveal. it was done effectively -- the idea that this is real and not just more manufactured drama sort of only gradually becoming clear. but i also always feel that giving characters afflictions or whatever is lazy writing on some level, and it makes the character less interesting in my mind ultimately.

solid writing all around in this episode though, and a few really funny lines.

but i also always feel that giving characters afflictions or whatever is lazy writing on some level, and it makes the character less interesting in my mind ultimately.

gotta call you out on this. sensitive and accurate portrayals of mental illness (like this one!) are important and still unusual. Mental illness remains heavily stigmatized, and LD and co. translating and sharing the experience of OCD in this episode was really powerful and affecting for me.

i can see that. my concern is is this a way to capture an actual experience primarily, or like a rabbit out of the hat to make the character more likable and provide depth. it depends where they take it next season i guess. i'm also constantly judging this show not by tv standards, but by short fiction workshop standards, since that's what it feels consistently closest to.

ah, just googled it up and apparently its autobiographical (down to the number eight).

more and more i can tell when lena is writing
"the clay is dry"

in my experience, while I feel kinship with other sufferers of mood disorders and often use mental health as a conversational jumping off point, a mood disorder doesn't make anyone more likable. If you feel some sort of discomfort at judging Hannah's past behavior in light of the reveal that she has OCD, I don't think you're being shanghaied by a writerly device or anything.

I do agree that it depends on where they take it in upcoming episodes.

xp

its not the fact of the ocd that recasts things -- its the way her parents seemed to treat it, and also the way it helps explain away lots of her other neuroses as coming from having had an actually very trying set of teenage years. it makes everything feel too neat, somehow.

this ep was great

yeah I just watched it last night... I loved it

very shocked by shosh's behavior tbh

why would adam have ever called the girl? just a "nothing to lose" situation, or?

yeah i was into the OCD revelation! not that i know what i'm talking about, i hardly ever watch this show. but i know about the big O and i did not mind seeing somebody else recount their story about it.

shosh is my favorite character, and taking her in this direction felt like it made a lot of sense. i like the idea that growing up doesn't mean growing into a better person.

this episode makes me very excited to see the next episode. like obv hannah is gonna try to get back in touch with adam after that therapist appt, but now he's moving on to something "better"...dying to see/hear shosh processing this scandalous thing she did...dying to see how marnie jumps into this singing dream?!?!

i don't know why marnie makes me laugh so much

DID she go there cause charlie is now making money and is now successful? was she just curious about his new life and feeling bad that she had lost touch to the degree that she was not even aware of this development? also how much time is supposed to have passed between the episode where he tried to kiss her on the rooftop and this one, i wonder.

marnie is gross and materialistic and status-obsessed enough to genuinely be like "ive got to get him back asap now that he is successful"

pretty sure ny startup culture is nothing like that office. like of the things LD knows how to write, an actual office environment is, I doubt, on that list.

i was in a ny start up for like 20mins the other day, will screen the ep and report back

its decently like that office ime. not exactly but not so different that it sticks out. not like slugline

the harlem shake video thing at the end i guess, and charlie being all "did you check the flegenheim report" or whatever, thats over the top but not ridiculous

it was believe to me but i know nothing about such offices tbh

no nerf no credibility

I have never met anyone in real life who talks like Shoshanna, though I have known lots of people in real life who talk like all the other characters. Is this just me? It makes it so that I resent losing valuable moments of show time to that character.

Shosh is that girl on your dorm hallway who showers twice a day, watches more TV than all the other people on that hall put together, wears pink tracksuits, keeps all her childhood stuffed animals and is secretly fucking the catering manager/a townie.

Shoshana should be a hero to us all

we are all the catering manager

marnie is gross and materialistic and status-obsessed enough to genuinely be like "ive got to get him back asap now that he is successful"

well yeah that + her thing with the artist guy flamed out

shosh is the realest one!!!

the other day i picked up a facewash

and now marnie is the spokesgirl for it

Great line suzy

Ray's "magician's assistant" line to Marnie was my episode highlight.

Does something like Forbid really exist? Because that is actually a great idea.

Shosh is that girl on your dorm hallway who showers twice a day, watches more TV than all the other people on that hall put together, wears pink tracksuits, keeps all her childhood stuffed animals and is secretly fucking the catering manager/a townie.

So Shoshanna is exactly the character she is on the show...

Shosh is great -- I think her incredible word-vomit is part of her charm. As if she's afraid to get feedback so she's just filling the void as much as she can, as quickly as she can. But also, like at the party, wounded when she realizes it's too much for ppl. I find it kind of adorable and hilarious now.

Hannah's facial tics and just general physicality seemed so real, I really was moved by the level of detail of that characterization

The point of Shosh (I love the character, actually) is that every pricey liberal arts college has about ten of her and the other 990 students are like 'what the fuck is she doing here?'. Mind, there are about 50 Jessas per thousand (possibly more at Brown) and they are totally irresistible to impressionable Midwesterners (hello, Hannah) because they are a) never that available and b) naturally mind-blowingly boho (the only time I felt they got Jessa wrong is when they had her and crazy dad pronouncing Ibiza 'eye-beeza').

Marnie will eventually get a good job in PR, like all thin girls who don't know enough about art.

my 5yo drew a picture of Lena Dunham

:)

i love that!

ahhh amazing

Forbid exists for gmail i think

Shoshanna is a great character and almost impossible for me to like, I wouldn't last five minutes in a room alone with her.

Want to defend Marnie as not materialistic/status-obsessed etc., the scene at the startup didn't play as her glomming on to the money train, but I may be blinded by Alison Williams being v. v. pretty and not a terrible singer.

Part of me wonders if Marnie showing up to Charlie's office was in the hopes of seeing something low-level and quaint and her being able to say 'Awwww good for YOU' and feel superior. Like she didn't BELIEVE that 'someone like Charlie' could be successful in a way that she'd hoped for herself above everyone because she 'deserves' it

too many airquotes

apologies to Ray

Shoshanna is a great character and almost impossible for me to like, I wouldn't last five minutes in a room alone with her.

― Kiarostami bag (milo z), Tuesday, March 5, 2013 4:40 PM (52 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

wouldnt last five minutes huh, you must dislike her a lot

I think that's exactly why she showed up xpost

http://www.nerve.com/advice/sex-advice-from/sex-advice-from-alex-karpovsky

Here's Ray with some...interesting ideas about gender relations

The whole thing just seems SO self-indulgent. Seinfeld stars a comedian named Jerry Seinfeld who plays a comedian named Jerry. Wow. Really, Jerry? He also created the show and writes it. It’s like he can’t give up control of anything.

Sometimes it seems like he’s just using this show as an excuse to play out his fantasies, y’know? Every show opens with him performing stand-up to a great crowd that loves every one of his jokes. And he’s constantly having sex with these beautiful women. Like, WAY too beautiful for a schlubby guy like Jerry. Even George, who’s like short and fat, and Kramer, who’s just kind of gross, both also have sex with these beautiful women. It’s like, yeah, okay, Jerry. I guess enjoy the dream while you can.

He really seems to think he’s funny. Do you think he’s funny? I don’t think he’s funny. Like, the critics say it’s a funny show, but the comedy is kind of weird. And nothing ever HAPPENS. It’s just these privileged white people (and I mean, they’re ALL white) living their lives in New York. The only non-white characters are wacky immigrant cab drivers and soup vendors. Oh, hilarious: they can’t speak English well — what’s so groundbreaking about that?

And are we supposed to LIKE these characters? I know you say that part of the humor is seeing yourself reflected in these characters, but none of them are good people. They’re selfish, petty, narcissists. They’re constantly talking about themselves while treating other people like garbage. They claim to be friends, yet they do absolutely horrible things to each other. Are we supposed to see ourselves in this? That seems kind of twisted to me.

Did you know there’s an episode called “The Contest” that’s all about masturbation? And one called “The Apology” that’s about Jerry being casually naked around the apartment with his girlfriend. I know they’re trying to be edgy, but honestly it’s boring. Like, wow, an ugly guy doing things I’m used to seeing hot guys do. Great. It’s not funny; it’s just off-putting. And have you seen the stuff Jerry wears? He’s got big white sneakers and tight jeans – not flattering at all.

Also, did you know Julia Louis-Dreyfus is the daughter of the billionaire Gerard Louis-Dreyfus. It seems a little disingenuous to cast her as personal assistant when she’s probably never had to work a day in her life.

And speaking of never working a day, what’s up with Kramer? He doesn’t seem to have a job and yet somehow he can live by himself in a giant high-rise Manhattan apartment. Are we to assume that his parents are giving him money? Is all this someone’s New York experience? Because it sure ain’t mine!

http://www.collegehumor.com/article/6874239/if-people-talked-about-seinfeld-like-they-talk-about-girls

that's funny but takings its point seriously: there, indeed, was a bunch of whining about Seinfeld and "Friends'"'s unrealistic Caucasian world back in the benighted 1990s. there jut wasn't so much resentment about that.

I imagine the reasons "Girls" gets more flak (and keep in mind I haven't seen the show) is because Dunham's precociousness stirs up a lot of resentment and envy from people in their 20s and 30s. Seinfeld was in his 30s and had done stand-up for years, all things being equal people thought he had paid his dues and if he got a break it was deserved. "Friends" wasn't created or written by the actors in it, so you didn't have auteur and authorship angle, which allowed us to talk about things that were of greater concern like Aniston's innovative hair or how cool it was that the girl with short hair from that Bruce Springsteen video was now on a hit show. and in a sad economy shows about people goofing off in a Relevant City and wasting their opportunities probably isn't as appealing as it was back then, maybe.

"Girls" is sort of like the Vampire Weekend circa 2008 of television in that you don't have to engage with it to enjoy talking about it or the backlash surrounding it.