Bergman's speech never registered as prickly to me. Though it did seem that she was about to actually give the award to Cortese (the word "therefore") before simply offering her apology.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ky5sW4no_cg
― Zero Dark 33⅓: The Final Insult (Eric H.), Wednesday, 27 February 2013 16:01 (eleven years ago) link
Hah, at a different MB I used to attend, someone counts this very win as the moment he gave up on Oscars.
Ingrid Bergman's nomination was, for me, an "I never even gave it a thought when I watched the movie" stunner. People seriously think that "I raise brown babies" monologue was Oscar territory? I found it borderline laughable. When people started predicting her to win...when she actually DID win...well, in tandem with the previous year's unforgivable lead acting pair, it made me re-evaluate my entire attitude toward the Oscars -- where, prior, I'd thought the voters were going to flirt with bad taste but somehow rescue themselves in the end, now I had the feeling that, year after year, they would find ever-more inventive ways of disappointing me. Of course on the odd great Oscar night ('77, '83) I've been able to briefly recapture the earlier enthusiasm, but the innocence was gone after this.
― Zero Dark 33⅓: The Final Insult (Eric H.), Wednesday, 27 February 2013 16:02 (eleven years ago) link
Ah, yes, the lost innocence of self-administered industry awards, RIP America.
― ARE YOU HIRING A NANNY OR A SHAMAN (Phil D.), Wednesday, 27 February 2013 16:05 (eleven years ago) link
I'm surprised in a way that De Niro managed to avoid vote-splitting with Gazzo and Strasberg for Supporting Actor.
One of those three is a gigantic role and a reincarnation of Brando. The other two are very much background players, no?
― Zero Dark 33⅓: The Final Insult (Eric H.), Wednesday, 27 February 2013 16:05 (eleven years ago) link
I lost my reverse-Oscar-innocence when Crash won. Never again, I thought, would they be able to top this.
de niro got 'he stole the film' hosannas like kael's
― Pope Rusty I (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 27 February 2013 16:08 (eleven years ago) link
Even if the Jaws theme had existed then, I think Ingrid would have gotten a pass...Starry-eyed sigh for Katherine Ross.
I agree De Niro had a much larger role--larger than some Best Actor winners, I'm sure--and was also already earmarked as a major new actor. But I would have thought the other guys would have gotten some votes anyway (they're both fantastic, I think), and Strasberg carried lots of mystique into that vote.
― clemenza, Wednesday, 27 February 2013 16:08 (eleven years ago) link
I was never innocent. I mean, I watched Rain Man win.
― the little prince of inane false binary hype (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 27 February 2013 16:08 (eleven years ago) link
That Gazzo got nominated over Cazale seems very NAGL now.
― Zero Dark 33⅓: The Final Insult (Eric H.), Wednesday, 27 February 2013 16:11 (eleven years ago) link
Eric H. in 1988 thought Rain Man was an excellent driver.
I'd argue for a parallel with the '72 Supporting Actor category--Pacino replacing De Niro as having the bigger and more substantive role--but I know you guys will say Joel Grey should have won easy regardless.
(Agree totally about Cazale.)
― clemenza, Wednesday, 27 February 2013 16:13 (eleven years ago) link
I'm fine with Grey beating Pacino in a head-to-head in either category. Pacino didn't really bloom in the role until the second one imo.
― Zero Dark 33⅓: The Final Insult (Eric H.), Wednesday, 27 February 2013 16:14 (eleven years ago) link
I guess I'll save that talk until 2015 when I poll 1972.
― Zero Dark 33⅓: The Final Insult (Eric H.), Wednesday, 27 February 2013 16:15 (eleven years ago) link
Strasberg is incredible in G2, i guess i've just become inured to prime de Niro over the years
― tochter tochter, please (Noodle Vague), Wednesday, 27 February 2013 16:20 (eleven years ago) link
I find his first scene especially memorable. This little old guy sitting quietly in a small bungalow, watching college football as his wife attends to him. And how quietly he says "Sit down, Michael," just barely looking up from the TV screen.
― clemenza, Wednesday, 27 February 2013 16:34 (eleven years ago) link
yeah, the slow reveal from elderly mentor to baddest of the bad is beautifully done
― tochter tochter, please (Noodle Vague), Wednesday, 27 February 2013 16:37 (eleven years ago) link
decent recreation of a North Miami or North Miami Beach neighborhood too.
― the little prince of inane false binary hype (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 27 February 2013 16:41 (eleven years ago) link
isnt he watching baseball?
― Pope Rusty I (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 27 February 2013 16:50 (eleven years ago) link
He's watching Cabaret.
― Zero Dark 33⅓: The Final Insult (Eric H.), Wednesday, 27 February 2013 16:53 (eleven years ago) link
Definitely college football. Baseball comes into the scene here.
― clemenza, Wednesday, 27 February 2013 18:15 (eleven years ago) link
Now that I think about it, how in the world was Huston overlooked for Supporting Actor? That would seem to be a lock, both on the merits and in terms of narrative. My five would have been the three GF II guys, plus Cazale, plus Huston. I'd be fine replacing Gazzo with Allen Garfield in The Conversation ("C'mon, Harry, show and tell"), and, in the best of all possible worlds, finding room for Polanski somewhere.
― clemenza, Wednesday, 27 February 2013 18:32 (eleven years ago) link
Best Director
― Zero Dark 33⅓: The Final Insult (Eric H.), Wednesday, 27 February 2013 18:37 (eleven years ago) link
this poll was made for clemenza― the little prince of inane false binary hype (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, February 26, 2013 9:54 AM (Yesterday)
I'm just getting warmed up--I'll be moving on to art direction very shortly. I know Polanski was up for best director, but he probably makes a more indelible impression in Chinatown than 97% of the people who have ever won Supporting Actor. Is Beatrice Straight's part in Network that much longer in terms of screen time?
― clemenza, Wednesday, 27 February 2013 18:43 (eleven years ago) link
No question he was overlooked.
― the little prince of inane false binary hype (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 27 February 2013 18:44 (eleven years ago) link
Polanski's in Chinatown roughly 37 seconds, so yeah, Straight's part is longer.
― Zero Dark 33⅓: The Final Insult (Eric H.), Wednesday, 27 February 2013 18:53 (eleven years ago) link
Huston, that is
xpost
― the little prince of inane false binary hype (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 27 February 2013 18:54 (eleven years ago) link
Huston, otoh, I def would've nominated and I guess likely awarded.
John P. Ryan, It's AliveGena Rowlands, A Woman Under the InfluenceGerrit Graham, Phantom of the ParadiseEdith Massey, Female Trouble
― Zero Dark 33⅓: The Final Insult (Eric H.), Wednesday, 27 February 2013 19:11 (eleven years ago) link
Er, I guess I meant to type him in but my fingers wouldn't obey.
― Zero Dark 33⅓: The Final Insult (Eric H.), Wednesday, 27 February 2013 19:12 (eleven years ago) link
I realize you can't realistically nominate someone for a brief cameo (even less likely when it's someone who's not primarily an actor). Straight's performance ran five minutes and 40 seconds according to Wikipedia. I've seen Network two or three times and don't remember much beyond the fact she's upset and arguing with Holden. Polanski's scene is arguably the best 37 seconds in a phenomenal film. Anyway, no room at the inn that particular year.
― clemenza, Wednesday, 27 February 2013 19:16 (eleven years ago) link
I'll grant the context of Network makes it sort of hard to see women at all, but damn, you have to be actively not looking at them to think that Straight, Marlene Warfield and (in a limited role that gets quoted here every other week) Conchata Ferrell don't make a huge impression.
― Zero Dark 33⅓: The Final Insult (Eric H.), Wednesday, 27 February 2013 19:21 (eleven years ago) link
(in a limited role that gets quoted here every other week) Conchata Ferrell
this has sailed by me.
― Pope Rusty I (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 27 February 2013 19:27 (eleven years ago) link
That's because you're crusty but benign.
― Zero Dark 33⅓: The Final Insult (Eric H.), Wednesday, 27 February 2013 19:27 (eleven years ago) link
nearly hairless and malignant
― Pope Rusty I (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 27 February 2013 19:32 (eleven years ago) link
Straight gets the most overwrought abandoned-wife speech in history, far worse than what I heard from my upstairs neighbor two weeks ago.
― the little prince of inane false binary hype (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 27 February 2013 19:32 (eleven years ago) link
LOUISE (stands) Then say it! Don't keep telling me you're obsessed, you're infatuated -- say you're in love with her! MAX I'm in love with her. LOUISE (erupts) Then get out, go to a hotel, go anywhere you want, go live with her, but don't come back! Because after twenty-five years of building a home and raising a family and all the senseless pain we've inflicted on each other, I'll be damned if I'll just stand here and let you tell me you love somebody else! Because this isn't just some con- vention weekend with your secretary, is it? Or some broad you picked up after three belts of booze. This is your great winter romance, isn't it?, your last roar of passion be- fore you sink into your emeritus years. Is that what's left for me? Is that my share? She gets the great winter passion, and I get the dotage? Am I supposed to sit at home knitting and purling till you slink back like a penitent drunk? I'm your wife, damn it! If you can't work up a winter passion for me, then the least I require is respect and allegiance! I'm hurt! Don't you understand that? I'm hurt badly!
MAX I'm in love with her.
LOUISE (erupts) Then get out, go to a hotel, go anywhere you want, go live with her, but don't come back! Because after twenty-five years of building a home and raising a family and all the senseless pain we've inflicted on each other, I'll be damned if I'll just stand here and let you tell me you love somebody else! Because this isn't just some con- vention weekend with your secretary, is it? Or some broad you picked up after three belts of booze. This is your great winter romance, isn't it?, your last roar of passion be- fore you sink into your emeritus years. Is that what's left for me? Is that my share? She gets the great winter passion, and I get the dotage? Am I supposed to sit at home knitting and purling till you slink back like a penitent drunk? I'm your wife, damn it! If you can't work up a winter passion for me, then the least I require is respect and allegiance! I'm hurt! Don't you understand that? I'm hurt badly!
vs.
You're a very nosy fellow, kitty cat. Huh? You know what happens to nosy fellows? Huh? No? Wanna guess? Huh? No? Okay. They lose their noses.
― Zero Dark 33⅓: The Final Insult (Eric H.), Wednesday, 27 February 2013 19:40 (eleven years ago) link
Sorry about your neighbor, Alfred.
ok, i found the Ferrell quote. why would one remember that?
also, calling Roman's wicked cameo the best scene in Chinatown is ridiculous.
― Pope Rusty I (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 27 February 2013 19:41 (eleven years ago) link
It sums up the vapidity of TV better than basically the entire rest of the movie?
― Zero Dark 33⅓: The Final Insult (Eric H.), Wednesday, 27 February 2013 19:41 (eleven years ago) link
sort of a cross between Zorba The Greek and Oliver Wendell Holmes, Jr.
― the little prince of inane false binary hype (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 27 February 2013 19:49 (eleven years ago) link
You needn't bother to read this thread's posts, Alfred. I'll tell them to you.
― Zero Dark 33⅓: The Final Insult (Eric H.), Wednesday, 27 February 2013 19:50 (eleven years ago) link
dog bites man xp
i like Network, but Kael had a point about Chayefsky's own vapidities.
back to '74, i do like Cockfighter more than at least 2 of these.
― Pope Rusty I (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 27 February 2013 19:51 (eleven years ago) link
Chinatown is filled with amazing scenes. I don't see how picking one of them and calling it arguably the best is even unreasonable, much less ridiculous.
― clemenza, Wednesday, 27 February 2013 19:53 (eleven years ago) link
How about when a scene is your sister AND your daughter?
― Zero Dark 33⅓: The Final Insult (Eric H.), Wednesday, 27 February 2013 20:00 (eleven years ago) link
It's all good! Arguably, arguably..."Where'd you get the midget, Claude?" and "You're a nosy fellow, kitty-kat" are just as brilliant for me.
― clemenza, Wednesday, 27 February 2013 20:03 (eleven years ago) link
True: my first alcoholic drink upon turning 21 was a Tom Collins, with lime not lemon.
― the little prince of inane false binary hype (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 27 February 2013 20:11 (eleven years ago) link
Friend told me that Chinatown clip shown at '75 Oscars was "SISTER!/DAUGHTER!" Bad spoiler, was reminded of it when they showed the climax of Flight the other night.
― Pope Rusty I (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 27 February 2013 22:00 (eleven years ago) link
best scene in chinatown is i hope you don't mind i believe they should be served with the head on
― a permanent mental health break (difficult listening hour), Wednesday, 27 February 2013 22:14 (eleven years ago) link
either that or when he's looking at the photographs on the walls whistling the way you look tonight
Yelburton: After you've worked with a man a certain length of time, you come to know his habits, his values - you come to know him - and either he's the kind who chases after women or he isn't.
Jake Gittes: Mulwray isn't?
Yelburton: He never even kids about it.
Jake Gittes: Well, maybe he takes it very seriousl
― the little prince of inane false binary hype (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 27 February 2013 22:17 (eleven years ago) link